Author Topic: "Keyless" multiline phones  (Read 3394 times)

Offline Babybearjs

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"Keyless" multiline phones
« on: June 27, 2014, 02:53:20 AM »
is it worth the time to have a section for AE 87A, 187, ITT 576, 2576, and S-C 1800 and 2800 phones?? or are these phones pretty much just "normal" phones??
John

Offline Adam

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Re: "Keyless" multiline phones
« Reply #1 on: June 27, 2014, 12:34:17 PM »
I think these sets may be more technically correctly called "KSUless" "Key Service Unit-less" of "KeySytemless".

The sets you listed do have "keys", the "key" part of a key set is the selector switch part. It's just that the sets you listed which have keys do not require extra, external equipement (the KSU) to function completely with lamps and hold.

I've always loved these sets, by the way.  I personally own a black ITT 2576 three line/hold set.
« Last Edit: June 27, 2014, 12:36:19 PM by Adam »
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Offline Babybearjs

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Re: "Keyless" multiline phones
« Reply #2 on: June 27, 2014, 10:42:47 PM »
these phones are quite nice, though they do require special wiring...I just bought 1 S-C 1800 rotary phone and replaced the cord with 2 RJ45 cords. I took a 25Ft. RJ45 patch cord and cut it in half, spaded the ends and used it to update the connection... I do this to all me phones that require multiple lines and connections. anyway, do you think its worth having a thread to discuss these phones?
John

Offline WesternElectricBen

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Re: "Keyless" multiline phones
« Reply #3 on: June 27, 2014, 10:49:35 PM »
Answering your original question, I do not think it is necessary to have their own sub category in my opinion as they are pretty simple.

Ben

Offline Babybearjs

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Re: "Keyless" multiline phones
« Reply #4 on: June 29, 2014, 09:17:11 AM »
sounds good....
John

Offline Babybearjs

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Re: "Keyless" multiline phones
« Reply #5 on: August 01, 2015, 08:51:05 PM »
went ahead an bought another ITT 2576 in Beige.... 24.99 with free shipping.... can't beat that!
John

Dominic_ContempraPhones

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Re: "Keyless" multiline phones
« Reply #6 on: April 18, 2016, 11:32:00 PM »
is it worth the time to have a section for AE 87A, 187, ITT 576, 2576, and S-C 1800 and 2800 phones?? or are these phones pretty much just "normal" phones??

The most sophisticated keyless system I've ever seen was Venture ... each station cost $350-$500.  AT&T made a similar 4 line device.  VTech makes one now also.  There was a peripheral for door unlock, music on hold, fax switch, and CDR via serial interface, called the Venture EFA (enhanced feature adapter).

It was a 3x8 meant to replace those small Norstars.  Units auto-discovered themselves.  All had to connect to a single CO line on position 1, but positions 2 and 3 could vary among the sets.  Each set had an 8P8C connector, with power injection on the outermost pins.  An adapter called a CAM provided USOC entry on one 6P6C jack for 1,2,3, another for 2,3, and the third for just 3 for one cord to the desk.  Once a line picked up -- other stations were excluded -- you had to press a key to join that call.  Extensions 01, 02, 03 ... were assigned to each phone for direct station to station intercom.  Each stn had a private directory and a global one that replicated asynchronously among all stations.  It was a multi-master config.  There was no core phone acting as a central control point.  It shifted around.  BNR was very hush hush about it, but it appeared it was using some kind of ADSL signaling technique.  1 meg modem came out around then but they never revealed their secret on Venture or Unistim.  Those were top secret.  They wouldn't tell me how it worked.

It had auto attendant and voice mail capabilities as well.  You could transfer calls if I remember correctly ... I think.  It's been a while.

Offline AE_Collector

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Re: "Keyless" multiline phones
« Reply #7 on: April 19, 2016, 12:37:08 AM »
You will appreciate the "phone system history" in my house. In about 1985 I scored a take out Vantage 12 system with 6 or 7 phones. Eventually I found and installed even more sets in our house.

Years later i had rounded up a 6-16 Norstar and enough phones to convert the system. While it had some better features than the Vantage 12, there were also features in the Vanatage 12 that I missed. After awhile I was able to get a CICS KSU to replace the 6-16 and with the addition of a CI (Call Display) card I now had Call Display.

Eventually I had rounded up enough Venture phones to once again convert the entire home system to Venture Phones. I hesitated a bit as once again it was a trade off of features. The Call Display worked much better with the larger screen on Ventures. The system was limited to only 8 stations which was a bit of a tight fit but I did find it possible to double up some stations to equip more than 8.

All through these years I had two or three CO lines so all of my systems were good solutions. I have been back down to a single CO line for years now but atill am using the Venture System. I never did score one of the Answering Machine Venture Sets so I use CO based Voice Mail.

I am considering dropping down to NT 9316 sets next since we just have the one line but I haven't yet decided for certain. I keep thinking 10A2 instead.

Terry
« Last Edit: April 19, 2016, 01:19:17 PM by AE_Collector »

Offline Babybearjs

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Re: "Keyless" multiline phones
« Reply #8 on: April 19, 2016, 12:44:47 AM »
its funny how technology has taken off with phones... I remember seeing multiline phones for sale at office depot that didn't need any additional equipment, all made by Panasonic, and others.... it really put the ITT 2576 to shame.... the big drawback on these newer phones is the quality... I had a GE 2 line TT phone, and after awhile the keypad gave out.... even the new IP phones don't last too long.... and unlike the 2576 phones they are harder to service and easier to replace..... disposable technology.... where as the 2576, and older phones like that outlast the newer phones.... at least that's my take on the topic.
John

Offline AE_Collector

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Re: "Keyless" multiline phones
« Reply #9 on: April 19, 2016, 01:28:42 PM »
No question about that. Lots of features but quality not so much, not nearly as much.

Terry

Dominic_ContempraPhones

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Re: "Keyless" multiline phones
« Reply #10 on: April 19, 2016, 02:36:56 PM »
You will appreciate the "phone system history" in my house. In about 1985 I scored a take out Vantage 12 system with 6 or 7 phones. Eventually I found and installed even more sets in our house.

Years later i had rounded up a 6-16 Norstar and enough phones to convert the system. While it had some better features than the Vantage 12, there were also features in the Vanatage 12 that I missed. After awhile I was able to get a CICS KSU to replace the 6-16 and with the addition of a CI (Call Display) card I now had Call Display.

Eventually I had rounded up enough Venture phones to once again convert the entire home system to Venture Phones. I hesitated a bit as once again it was a trade off of features. The Call Display worked much better with the larger screen on Ventures. The system was limited to only 8 stations which was a bit of a tight fit but I did find it possible to double up some stations to equip more than 8.

All through these years I had two or three CO lines so all of my systems were good solutions. I have been back down to a single CO line for years now but atill am using the Venture System. I never did score one of the Answering Machine Venture Sets so I use CO based Voice Mail.

I am considering dropping down to NT 9316 sets next since we just have the one line but I haven't yet decided for certain. I keep thinking 10A2 instead.

Terry

I'm impressed Terry.  What did you do with the disadVantage?  Did you have those original 1st generation Vantage sets (they didn't even look like NT -- I thought NT outsourced the manufacturing of those to a plant on Mars -- they look alien), or the Vantage Esprit (es-preeeeeeeeeeee) -- which I used to call S-purr-IT or E-SPIRIT (as in ghost) to annoy certain people at Bell who were from Montreal.

I was working at Northern Telecom when Venture came out and they would not sell me the DTAD Ventures (the arrow keys on those were a light blue), only the non-DTAD ones.  So, I went to Anixter and bought them!  They weren't cheap, so I only bought two -- one black, and one almond.  Around that time we bought the talking caller ID number analog Meridians from NT's Pioneer store ... 9516CW and the ones with voice dialing via Windows 98 -- the M9617USB -- that one I got through Nortel.  The other one I remember getting was the Nomad 8500 cordless (with DSCWID) ... but Bell never enabled what we called "Deluxe Spontaneous Call Waiting Identification with Disposition".  That worked on ADSI (Type 3 Caller ID) screen phones and the cordless ones.

What you need is an Option 11c Mini or a Norstar Mickey (MICS).  BCM50 is good too.  I can tell you funny stories about those.  I got a Norstar fanatic in California who has Call Pilot.  He had a lot of telemarketers calling him with spoofed Caller ID from PRI lines.

I was in a mischevious mood and was trying to get him to route his inbound telemarketers outbound (using a CCR tree and Caller ID pattern-match routing) to Dave Hunter's museum in Prince Edward Island.  He wasn't up to the challenge.  Why are these guys always taking all the fun out of telephony?

Dominic_ContempraPhones

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Re: "Keyless" multiline phones
« Reply #11 on: April 19, 2016, 02:41:41 PM »
its funny how technology has taken off with phones... I remember seeing multiline phones for sale at office depot that didn't need any additional equipment, all made by Panasonic, and others.... it really put the ITT 2576 to shame.... the big drawback on these newer phones is the quality... I had a GE 2 line TT phone, and after awhile the keypad gave out.... even the new IP phones don't last too long.... and unlike the 2576 phones they are harder to service and easier to replace..... disposable technology.... where as the 2576, and older phones like that outlast the newer phones.... at least that's my take on the topic.

Yeah, but the older sets had parts that quite often needed replacing.  Especially the carbon mics before electret and the non-IC touch-tone pads.  Those were difficult to retune using those triangle screwdrivers and a frequency multimeter ... and pressing two buttons at once!

Offline AE_Collector

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Re: "Keyless" multiline phones
« Reply #12 on: April 19, 2016, 08:11:13 PM »
Since I am a phone collectir who likes key systems, naturally.....I still have the Vantage 12 and a box of the original phones. Actually I probably have two or three of the KSU's, one likely a bit newer design and it has three or four of the newer style phones with it. A couple of the full speakerphone modules for the phones but I never had the dialler memory button modules or the memory card for the KSU. A friend did but I missed it when he moved and junked the whole thing.

I remember seeing one of the Vantage 48 systems in someones house as well.

My KSU's had the 66 punch down terminals right on the top front of the cabinet which we usually wired out to a real frame. I don't know if I have ever posted pictures of it on here or not. I guess that I should. I wonder what they called those handsets? They were different but those NT data terminals used that handset as well. Have one of them here as well.

Don't need a MICS, have three or four in the garage and a couple of CICS still. Don't need an option 11 mini...I put a couple of them in at work but I have a full single cabinet Option 11 with MerMail in the garage as well. No line cards for it though. I should get a digital station card and some analog 500 cards for it I guess.

I installed quite a few BCM systems but dont have one other than a few Media Bay Modules for them.

Where were the telemarketers going to go at Dave's place....a vist to Lenny?

Terry


I'm impressed Terry.  What did you do with the disadVantage?  Did you have those original 1st generation Vantage sets (they didn't even look like NT -- I thought NT outsourced the manufacturing of those to a plant on Mars -- they look alien), or the Vantage Esprit (es-preeeeeeeeeeee) -- which I used to call S-purr-IT or E-SPIRIT (as in ghost) to annoy certain people at Bell who were from Montreal.

I was working at Northern Telecom when Venture came out and they would not sell me the DTAD Ventures (the arrow keys on those were a light blue), only the non-DTAD ones.  So, I went to Anixter and bought them!  They weren't cheap, so I only bought two -- one black, and one almond.  Around that time we bought the talking caller ID number analog Meridians from NT's Pioneer store ... 9516CW and the ones with voice dialing via Windows 98 -- the M9617USB -- that one I got through Nortel.  The other one I remember getting was the Nomad 8500 cordless (with DSCWID) ... but Bell never enabled what we called "Deluxe Spontaneous Call Waiting Identification with Disposition".  That worked on ADSI (Type 3 Caller ID) screen phones and the cordless ones.

What you need is an Option 11c Mini or a Norstar Mickey (MICS).  BCM50 is good too.  I can tell you funny stories about those.  I got a Norstar fanatic in California who has Call Pilot.  He had a lot of telemarketers calling him with spoofed Caller ID from PRI lines.

I was in a mischevious mood and was trying to get him to route his inbound telemarketers outbound (using a CCR tree and Caller ID pattern-match routing) to Dave Hunter's museum in Prince Edward Island.  He wasn't up to the challenge.  Why are these guys always taking all the fun out of telephony?
« Last Edit: April 19, 2016, 08:15:08 PM by AE_Collector »

Dominic_ContempraPhones

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Re: "Keyless" multiline phones
« Reply #13 on: April 20, 2016, 02:39:00 AM »
Since I am a phone collectir who likes key systems, naturally.....I still have the Vantage 12 and a box of the original phones. Actually I probably have two or three of the KSU's, one likely a bit newer design and it has three or four of the newer style phones with it. A couple of the full speakerphone modules for the phones but I never had the dialler memory button modules or the memory card for the KSU. A friend did but I missed it when he moved and junked the whole thing.

I remember seeing one of the Vantage 48 systems in someones house as well.

My KSU's had the 66 punch down terminals right on the top front of the cabinet which we usually wired out to a real frame. I don't know if I have ever posted pictures of it on here or not. I guess that I should. I wonder what they called those handsets? They were different but those NT data terminals used that handset as well. Have one of them here as well.

Don't need a MICS, have three or four in the garage and a couple of CICS still. Don't need an option 11 mini...I put a couple of them in at work but I have a full single cabinet Option 11 with MerMail in the garage as well. No line cards for it though. I should get a digital station card and some analog 500 cards for it I guess.

I installed quite a few BCM systems but dont have one other than a few Media Bay Modules for them.

Where were the telemarketers going to go at Dave's place....a vist to Lenny?

Terry

Those were NTOB 1303 (the 66s)  The 2 was a BIX and the 4 was a  TELADAPT -- love that name, with RJ jacks -- 4 pins on the stations and 2 pins on the CO lines.  Ah, no punching. The other sets that came later? ... Esprit.

We just wanted to route those calls to Dave as a joke over CNet or PSTN if Steve had flat rate LD US/CAN.  The guy's full name was Steve Hart and he had a problem with telemarketers calling him.  He has this odd fascination with NT and green phones.  The problem is he didn't know how to exploit Norstar and Call Pilot to handle the problem.

Now, I don't want to upset you, because when I say this, everyone always gets upset because it unbalances their universe, but Northern never made any key system except what it copied from WE (1A2).

Externally, Vantage 8 and 12 simulated 1A2, but internally, the controller and switching matrix made it an electronically controlled space division switch that could only "switch" a station to an outside line that it was permitted to access through those dip switches.  There was no multiplexing in there.

Vantage 24/48 wasn't a key system by any stretch of the imagination.  They just marketed all of them that way.  Do you have a Vantage 24?
« Last Edit: April 20, 2016, 02:47:12 AM by Dominic_ContempraPhones »

Offline AE_Collector

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Re: "Keyless" multiline phones
« Reply #14 on: April 20, 2016, 09:59:30 PM »
No, I have only heard of Vantage 12 & 48. I didn't know that there was an 8 & 24 as well. I can't recall now what the cabinet looked like for the Vantage 48 either.

Such an interesting or maybe unusual design to have each card in the system support two stations and one CO line.

I might have to dig out the Vantage and power it up again soon!

Terry