Author Topic: Western Electric 653 Won't Break a Dial Tone When Dialing a Number  (Read 8734 times)

Offline gands-antiques

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Re: Western Electric 653 Won't Break a Dial Tone When Dialing a Number
« Reply #15 on: July 25, 2014, 02:48:18 PM »
The condenser leads to RR and BK were reversed. I put them in the correct locations and the phone still wouldn't dial out or ring.

I'll try the testing you described when I get home tonight.

Thanks,
Gary

unbeldi

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Re: Western Electric 653 Won't Break a Dial Tone When Dialing a Number
« Reply #16 on: July 25, 2014, 09:53:01 PM »
If you tested the ringer separately with a condenser, keep it disconnected for now to diagnose the other functions of the telephone.

Here is a basic signaling path test.

*Connect your ohmmeter across L1 and L2 of the set.

*Measure the resistance when the hookswitch is on-hook. It should be infinitely large.

*Now take the set off-hook and measure the resistance and note it. It should be anywhere from a hundred to several hundred ohms, depending on the condition of the transmitter element.  When you remove the transmitter element at this point, your reading should be infinite again.

*Now rotate the dial from the rest position from any number, say 0, with your finger against the finger stop, as if you are going to dial, but don't release the wheel. Measure the resistance again. It should be very low, only a few ohms. Even 10 ohms would be too much, because essentially you have a straight metallic connection between L1 and L2, going through four switches. If it is larger than about 10 ohms, you may need to clean contacts on the dial and or the hookswitch.

*Release the finger wheel and see if your meter picks up the dial pulses.  It may not, because of the way digital meters are constructed. But give it a try.

If the resistances are as expected, the set should be able to break dial tone, and probably even dial correctly.
If not we have to find what is miswired and your resistance values might provide a clue.
« Last Edit: July 25, 2014, 10:03:41 PM by unbeldi »

Offline gands-antiques

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Re: Western Electric 653 Won't Break a Dial Tone When Dialing a Number
« Reply #17 on: July 25, 2014, 11:15:39 PM »
The resistance between L1 & L2 with hook on and also with hook off registered maximum meeting (pegged needle).  It was also max resistance reading between L1 & L2 when dialing zero and holding it. The resistance was max when dial is released.

I don't know why the resistance checks were so high when you said they should be very low.

I found a black wire from I believe the dial connected to terminal block RR and i moved it to terminal block RR and THE PHONE CAME TO LIFE.   It will dial out and receive calls but the only combination of terminal connections I could find that will ring is Red ringer wire to terminal block YY and Black ringer wire to network L2.

When I lift the receiver off of the hook the ringer rings for a millisecond so I know the wiring isn't totally correct.

Thanks,
Gary

unbeldi

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Re: Western Electric 653 Won't Break a Dial Tone When Dialing a Number
« Reply #18 on: July 25, 2014, 11:28:09 PM »
The resistance between L1 & L2 with hook on and also with hook off registered maximum meeting (pegged needle).  It was also max resistance reading between L1 & L2 when dialing zero and holding it. The resistance was max when dial is released.

I don't know why the resistance checks were so high when you said they should be very low.

Well, what is maximum on your meter?  What scale do you have the meter set on? Can you choose a scale so that you get a good reading not full scale.

Are you using a traditional analog meter?   Analog ohmmeters have their zero point at the right side (full scale), so perhaps you are measuring zero in all cases?


Quote
I found a black wire from I believe the dial connected to terminal block RR and i moved it to terminal block RR and THE PHONE CAME TO LIFE.   It will dial out and receive calls but the only combination of terminal connections I could find that will ring is Red ringer wire to terminal block YY and Black ringer wire to network L2.

When I lift the receiver off of the hook the ringer rings for a millisecond so I know the wiring isn't totally correct.

Thanks,
Gary


You found it on RR and you moved it to RR?  I don't understand.

Red ringer wire to YY and black to L2 cannot work when the set is wired correctly.  check the other wire that is on YY and trace where it goes.   It should go to hook switch terminals 2 and 4.
« Last Edit: July 25, 2014, 11:36:14 PM by unbeldi »

Offline gands-antiques

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Re: Western Electric 653 Won't Break a Dial Tone When Dialing a Number
« Reply #19 on: July 25, 2014, 11:39:32 PM »
The little meter I have has only one OHM setting X1K.  Also now the ringer isn't working again.

Thanks,
Gary

unbeldi

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Re: Western Electric 653 Won't Break a Dial Tone When Dialing a Number
« Reply #20 on: July 26, 2014, 09:34:07 AM »
The little meter I have has only one OHM setting X1K.  Also now the ringer isn't working again.

Thanks,
Gary
Did you change anything?

Please make sure you know what it is you are reading on your meter.
What happens when you short the two meter leads together? This is one of your reference points, zero ohms. Perhaps your meter has a screw adjustment to set the needle exactly to 0 for this. What is the reading when the two meter leads are not shorted? Is it on the left hand margin?  That is an infinite resistance, an open circuit, the second reference point.

Read the ohm tick marks on the meter to understand what they mean. What is the largest value on the left?  X1K  means that one tick mark value is multiplied by 1000 ohms.  Try to identify the 1000 ohm mark. Most of your readings from the phone will be between 0 and 1000, or infinite.
« Last Edit: July 26, 2014, 09:39:45 AM by unbeldi »

Offline gands-antiques

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Re: Western Electric 653 Won't Break a Dial Tone When Dialing a Number
« Reply #21 on: July 26, 2014, 10:04:02 AM »
The needle pegs to the right Zero when I touch the two probes together. The screw is set to for the needle to align with the zero when the pprobes are touched.  That is the reading I was trying to describe when I said the needle was pegged.
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I have an update on the wiring status...The phone is performing all functions now but the Ringer is ringing for a short millisecond when I lift the hook switch and it is also ringing with every number I dial when making a call.

I ended up connecting the Red ringer wire to RR on the terminal block and the Black ringer wire to L2 on the network.

I put paper between all dial contacts and traced the dial wires. 

The dial W wire has resistance on Both of the REC contacts. The GN contact on the networt also shows resistance on Both REC contacts.  I only see one wire to each REC contact on the wiring diagram so I don't know why multiple wires and contacts have resistance to both REC contact. 

The BK dial wire is showing resistance at the 3rd from right hook contact and also on the BK contact on the terminal block. 
This doesn't sound right either.

The other dial wires (BB, R and Y) are connected properly and show resistance as they should according to the wiring diagram.

Thanks,
Gary

unbeldi

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Re: Western Electric 653 Won't Break a Dial Tone When Dialing a Number
« Reply #22 on: July 26, 2014, 10:43:50 AM »
Sounds like you're getting somewhere.

The bell tingle is not uncommon. It is caused by the direct current pulsing while dialing and when the line is connected.  The solution is to increase the bias adjustment on the ringer just slightly.

You ringer has a spring connected to the armature and to a screw head with a thin cotton thread.  Turn the screw head clockwise just a tine bit, probably no more that a 1/32 or 1/16 of a turn.  That tightens the spring tension just enough to prevent the armature from moving on every DC pulse.

But be careful turning that screw, it is a soft brass screw and can easily break if forced too much.
« Last Edit: July 26, 2014, 10:46:11 AM by unbeldi »

unbeldi

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Re: Western Electric 653 Won't Break a Dial Tone When Dialing a Number
« Reply #23 on: July 26, 2014, 11:10:23 AM »
I ended up connecting the Red ringer wire to RR on the terminal block and the Black ringer wire to L2 on the network.

This probably means that the wiring to L1 and L2 is interchanged.  It should be the other way around, but is not critical.

Quote
The dial W wire has resistance on Both of the REC contacts. The GN contact on the networt also shows resistance on Both REC contacts.
W is connected directly to the receiver.  So you should have almost zero resistance.  When you say "something has resistance", what do you mean?

The receiver should have a resistance of somewhere around 70 ohms, if I recall correctly. So, with a meter that only shows 1000 ohms per division, you will get a reading very close to zero.

Quote
I only see one wire to each REC contact on the wiring diagram so I don't know why multiple wires and contacts have resistance to both REC contact.
The resistance of the receiver is quite low, and with an instrument on a high scale, you don't see it very clearly.  In order to make wire tracing measurements, you either must measure resistances very precisely (down to single ohms), or you need to remove the receiver element, or disconnect one of the receiver leads.  I think I mentioned that before.


Quote
The BK dial wire is showing resistance at the 3rd from right hook contact and also on the BK contact on the terminal block. 
This doesn't sound right either.
Again what do you mean by "showing resistance" ?  The needle to the far right?  That means it has very little resistance and is indeed what we expect.

Look at my circuit diagram and you see that the dial switch DS1 with the BK terminal is directly connected via the DP (dial pulse) switch to terminal 5 (3rd from right) on the hookswitch.

Quote
The other dial wires (BB, R and Y) are connected properly and show resistance as they should according to the wiring diagram.

Thanks,
Gary

Again, you need to be clear about your meaning when using terms like "showing resistance".  I have the feeling what you mean is that there is "conductivity", i.e. a reading close to zero, which is more or less the opposite.

« Last Edit: July 26, 2014, 11:19:52 AM by unbeldi »

Offline gands-antiques

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Re: Western Electric 653 Won't Break a Dial Tone When Dialing a Number
« Reply #24 on: July 26, 2014, 11:54:08 AM »
You are correct..I meant to say zero resistance when the needle was pegged.

You did say earlier that the receiver element had to be removed and I had forgotten to do this. I just disconnected one of the leads on the receiver terminal and now I get correct wire traces.

I tightened the brass screw with the thread connected and the ringing stopped when dialing numbers. 

The ring is still present when the hook switch is opened or closed.

Do you think I should switch the line cord wires on L1 and L2 contacts OR, did you mean all of the wires connected to L1 and L2 should be swapped except for the line cord wires? 

Thanks,
Gary
« Last Edit: July 26, 2014, 12:03:31 PM by gands-antiques »

unbeldi

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Re: Western Electric 653 Won't Break a Dial Tone When Dialing a Number
« Reply #25 on: July 26, 2014, 12:17:02 PM »
You are correct..I meant to say zero resistance when the needle was pegged.

You did say earlier that the receiver element had to be removed and I had forgotten to do this. I just disconnected one of the leads on the receiver terminal and now I get correct wire traces.

I tightened the brass screw with the thread connected and the ringing stopped when dialing numbers. 
GREAT !

Quote
The ring is still present when the hook switch is opened or closed.
Perhaps you need to adjust a little more. You have to play with it a little, carefully.  Those threads can be very brittle by now, don't touch with fingers. Contamination with organic material could accelerate decomposition.

Quote
Do you think I should switch the line cord wires on L1 and L2 contacts OR, did you mean all of the wires connected to L1 and L2 should be swapped except for the line cord wires? 
Switching the LINE CORD WIRES would not make a difference in operation. However, that may help in reducing the bell tingle when the switch hook is closed or opened.  Give it a try.

Swapping all connections to the L1 and L2 terminals depends on how the set is actually wired elsewhere, so that requires a full verification of all connections.


Offline gands-antiques

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Re: Western Electric 653 Won't Break a Dial Tone When Dialing a Number
« Reply #26 on: July 26, 2014, 12:51:35 PM »
I manually compressed the spring that is connected to the thread slightly (1/4") and the ringing still happened when the hook was opened or closed so I don't think there would be enough adjustment to stop the ringing.

I reversed the line cord wires and the ringing is much less when hook is opened and closed.

I think at this point the phone is about as good as I can get it.  It is fully functional now and it dials, transmits, receives and rings with incoming calls as it should.

I really want to thank you for your above and beyond expert instructions throughout our entire trouble shooting process. 


Thanks you very much!!
Gary

unbeldi

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Re: Western Electric 653 Won't Break a Dial Tone When Dialing a Number
« Reply #27 on: July 26, 2014, 01:02:33 PM »
You're welcome.
I am glad this beauty is working again.

Would you mind reading the date stamp off the 101A induction coil?
And any other dates that may be hidden somewhere.  I can see one on the dial, which may be endin in 40? (other than the 5H* designation) Inside the transmitter should be a date too, and on the F1 element.

Enjoy!

Offline gands-antiques

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Re: Western Electric 653 Won't Break a Dial Tone When Dialing a Number
« Reply #28 on: July 26, 2014, 01:21:08 PM »
The network date is lV-38.  The date on the inside phone case (side with the wiring diagram) is I 39.

I may put a different dial in it.

Thanks,
Gary

unbeldi

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Re: Western Electric 653 Won't Break a Dial Tone When Dialing a Number
« Reply #29 on: July 26, 2014, 01:31:39 PM »
Do you have reason to believe the dial that came with it was not original?