Author Topic: 1953 WE 500 with 1973 dial  (Read 4245 times)

Offline andre_janew

  • **
  • Posts: 1693
1953 WE 500 with 1973 dial
« on: November 27, 2014, 07:43:21 PM »
Years ago, I had a 1953 WE 500C telephone.  It was black in color.  I used a 1973 WE 500DM phone I found in some trash as a donor phone to add a dial to the older one.  The donor phone was black in color as well. 

Before I removed the dial, I made a crude diagram of where all the wires went.  I noticed that the brackets for the dial on the two phones were different, but that didn't seem to cause any serious problems.  After installing the dial, I successfully called one of my neighbors and asked him to call me back.  When he did, I heard another phone ring, but not the one I just installed the dial on.  I answered the phone and told him I now had another thing to work on.

I later had both phones opened up trying to figure out what else I needed to do.  I then noticed that one of the ringers wires on the donor phone was in a different spot than on the older phone.  In short, moving that wire made the ringer work again.  To this day, I have no idea why adding a dial to a phone would require a wiring change to get the ringer to work again.

The donor phone went back into the trash, minus its dial of course.  I would've kept it, but the handset cord kept falling out of the handset.  Changing ends on the handset cord didn't help one bit.  Oh well, I got a free dial out of the deal.

Back then I had no idea that there were different networks among WE telephones.  All I remember is that the networks on both phones looked an awful lot alike.  It may have been a miracle that I got a newer dial to work on an older phone, but I did. 

unbeldi

  • Guest
Re: 1953 WE 500 with 1973 dial
« Reply #1 on: November 27, 2014, 08:29:13 PM »
Years ago, I had a 1953 WE 500C telephone.  It was black in color.  I used a 1973 WE 500DM phone I found in some trash as a donor phone to add a dial to the older one.  The donor phone was black in color as well. 
In 1953, 500C phones still used the old style apparatus blank No. 95A, a slightly convex disk, rather then the sunken inward type, 95B and C. I think it's worth keeping them intact with that dial blank. I also have a 1953 model, that I keep for this reason.

Quote
Before I removed the dial, I made a crude diagram of where all the wires went.  I noticed that the brackets for the dial on the two phones were different, but that didn't seem to cause any serious problems.  After installing the dial, I successfully called one of my neighbors and asked him to call me back.  When he did, I heard another phone ring, but not the one I just installed the dial on.  I answered the phone and told him I now had another thing to work on.
Yes, until second half of 1954, the dial mounting bracket had three posts, rather than two.


Quote
I later had both phones opened up trying to figure out what else I needed to do.  I then noticed that one of the ringers wires on the donor phone was in a different spot than on the older phone.  In short, moving that wire made the ringer work again.  To this day, I have no idea why adding a dial to a phone would require a wiring change to get the ringer to work again.
It is not unusual that ringer wires are positioned differently on various phones.  This depended on the type of service the subscriber required. On party lines, ringing can be either between ground and tip, or ground and ring lead. There are other services for message rate, and flat rate, with special features and office types that required different ringing connections.


Quote
The donor phone went back into the trash, minus its dial of course.  I would've kept it, but the handset cord kept falling out of the handset.  Changing ends on the handset cord didn't help one bit.  Oh well, I got a free dial out of the deal.

Back then I had no idea that there were different networks among WE telephones.  All I remember is that the networks on both phones looked an awful lot alike.  It may have been a miracle that I got a newer dial to work on an older phone, but I did.
The networks on most 500-type sets are almost identical. As is natural with any technological device, small changes in design represent evolution and improvements in materials. The 425B is the fundamental network design of the period, not only for WECo, but it became the standard in telecommunications in North America, because it was the basis of specifications that the FCC adopted in Part 68.
« Last Edit: November 27, 2014, 08:32:25 PM by unbeldi »

Offline poplar1

  • ***
  • Posts: 6410
  • 1051-AL
Re: 1953 WE 500 with 1973 dial
« Reply #2 on: November 27, 2014, 08:49:09 PM »
...I then noticed that one of the ringers wires on the donor phone was in a different spot than on the older phone.  In short, moving that wire made the ringer work again.  To this day, I have no idea why adding a dial to a phone would require a wiring change to get the ringer to work again.

It actually had nothing to do with having a dial. Rather, the 500C and 500D were factory wired with the black ringer wire on G, and for individual (non-party) lines the yellow line cord wire (from G) and the green wire (from L1) were connected together (on the same screw) at the wall.

A 500DM, on the other hand, has the black ringer wire connected to L1, so that only two wires of the line cord are needed. When changing a hardwired phone to modular, it is necessary to move the black ringer wire from G to L1; otherwise it won't ring.
"C'est pas une restauration, c'est une rénovation."--François Martin.

Offline andre_janew

  • **
  • Posts: 1693
Re: 1953 WE 500 with 1973 dial
« Reply #3 on: November 28, 2014, 08:49:54 PM »
I did replace the line cord on my 1953 phone.  The replacement had a modular plug on one end and spade terminals on the other.  That was about as modular as it got.  Also, I know what you mean about the dial blank.  Unfortunately, I don't have it anymore and I'm not sure what happened to it either.  I loaned the phone to a neighbor and he not only didn't return it, he took it with him when he moved out of the neighborhood.  !@#$%*

I'm in the process of tracking the guy down right now.  Not only does he owe me a phone, he also owes me money, a lot of money.  Tracking him down isn't just about a phone, you see. 
« Last Edit: December 04, 2014, 12:59:56 PM by andre_janew »

Offline andre_janew

  • **
  • Posts: 1693
Re: 1953 WE 500 with 1973 dial
« Reply #4 on: December 24, 2014, 09:13:42 PM »
I had the 1953 500C telephone in the basement.  My dad talked me into adding a dial to it.  What if I got trapped in the basement?  How would I call for help when there's a dial-less telephone there?  He worried about the darnedest things.  A typical dad, I suppose.

Offline andre_janew

  • **
  • Posts: 1693
Re: 1953 WE 500 with 1973 dial
« Reply #5 on: February 02, 2015, 06:22:39 PM »
These pictures represent what the inside of the phone probably looked like before I added the dial.

Offline andre_janew

  • **
  • Posts: 1693
Re: 1953 WE 500 with 1973 dial
« Reply #6 on: February 05, 2015, 06:57:22 PM »
These pictures represent what the inside of the donor phone probably looked like.

Offline andre_janew

  • **
  • Posts: 1693
Re: 1953 WE 500 with 1973 dial
« Reply #7 on: February 08, 2015, 11:45:29 AM »
These pictures represent what the 1973 dial probably looked like on the 1953's bracket.

Offline andre_janew

  • **
  • Posts: 1693
Re: 1953 WE 500 with 1973 dial
« Reply #8 on: February 08, 2015, 11:50:25 AM »
These pictures represent what the 1953 WE 500 probably looked like with the 1973 dial.

Offline andre_janew

  • **
  • Posts: 1693
Re: 1953 WE 500 with 1973 dial
« Reply #9 on: March 27, 2015, 07:11:05 PM »
I suppose I could've selected a better dial for this phone if I had internet access at the time.  However, I didn't.  I simply had to make the best of what I could find at the time.  I think I did very well under the circumstances.

I remember that I replaced the line cord the same time I added the dial.  The reason for it was because of the insulation on the wires on the far end of the cord.  Insulation had come off the yellow wire and the green wire.  Those two wires may have been touching each other and making the ringer work.  I had decided to replace the line cord before the red wire lost insulation and shorted things out.  Replacing the line cord may have caused the ringer to quit working until I rewired the phone.

Offline HarrySmith

  • ***
  • Posts: 6626
  • 1937 302
Re: 1953 WE 500 with 1973 dial
« Reply #10 on: March 27, 2015, 07:56:12 PM »
If you have a 1950 dial I will trade for a 1952! That would be a much better dial for this phone. ;D
Harry Smith
ATCA 4434
TCI

"There is no try,
there is only
do or do not"

Offline andre_janew

  • **
  • Posts: 1693
Re: 1953 WE 500 with 1973 dial
« Reply #11 on: March 29, 2015, 12:19:14 PM »
Unfortunately I no longer have this phone.  Earlier in this thread, didn't I mention that a neighbor borrowed it and never returned it?  I've been trying to track the guy and the phone down, but no luck so far.  You are, however, correct that a 1952 dial would be a better fit for the phone.  If I did have it, I might be able to trade the 1973 dial for a 1952 dial.

Offline andre_janew

  • **
  • Posts: 1693
Re: 1953 WE 500 with 1973 dial
« Reply #12 on: April 17, 2015, 09:30:57 PM »
I did post some photos on this thread.  They are not the actual photos of the actual phones mentioned in this thread, but  what might be considered to be mock ups of the actual phones mentioned.  Hopefully this will avoid any confusion in the near future.

Offline andre_janew

  • **
  • Posts: 1693
Re: 1953 WE 500 with 1973 dial
« Reply #13 on: October 30, 2015, 04:04:07 PM »
I once had a modular plug on the end of the original line cord like the one shown in the first two pictures.  The insulation of the individual wires was  crumbling on that end causing the yellow and green wires to touch.  I was afraid that the insulation would soon be crumbling from the red wire and cause a short.  To prevent that, I got a replacement cord like the one in the third picture.  In the last picture is a cord restraint setup that uses a knot in the cord and a cable tie.
« Last Edit: November 01, 2015, 03:12:53 PM by andre_janew »