Author Topic: European Wall Mount Metal Need Help IDing  (Read 5978 times)

Online Doug Rose

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 6519
  • Blondie & the Kid of Phone
European Wall Mount Metal Need Help IDing
« on: April 03, 2015, 02:07:34 PM »
I picked this up really cheap on eBay because I liked the manual set and, of course the great handset. I thought it was bakelite, but it is metal. Pardon the pics, but its rainy and this is the best light for today. Any idea on the manufacturer? I was going to sell, but it came out really nice, much better than the pics. All done with phone play today!..Thanks...Doug

http://www.ebay.com/itm/261818424650
Kidphone

unbeldi

  • Guest
Re: European Wall Mount Metal Need Help IDing
« Reply #1 on: April 03, 2015, 02:31:05 PM »
BTMC 2713A,

just like the sticker says.

Nice price.

The phone has a steel base, but the handset cradle and dial frame is an aluminum alloy.  Since yours has the older style handset, similar to the Bell System version E1, it's probably early 1930s.

I am not so sure that the handset actually belongs on this phone.

This is the wall mounted version of this phone :  http://www.classicrotaryphones.com/forum/index.php?topic=11803.0, except that that desk phone is already using an anti-sidetone circuit.
« Last Edit: April 04, 2015, 11:03:06 AM by unbeldi »

Online Doug Rose

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 6519
  • Blondie & the Kid of Phone
Re: European Wall Mount Metal Need Help IDing
« Reply #2 on: April 03, 2015, 02:47:03 PM »
Karl....who is the manufacturer and what country....thanks for your help...Doug
Kidphone

unbeldi

  • Guest
Re: European Wall Mount Metal Need Help IDing
« Reply #3 on: April 03, 2015, 02:51:14 PM »
Karl....who is the manufacturer and what country....thanks for your help...Doug

BTMC

Bell Telephone Manufacturing Company
Anvers, BE

The European division of Western Electric, post divestiture of 1925.

Online Doug Rose

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 6519
  • Blondie & the Kid of Phone
Re: European Wall Mount Metal Need Help IDing
« Reply #4 on: April 03, 2015, 02:58:24 PM »
thank you.....makes it even better...Doug
Kidphone

unbeldi

  • Guest
Re: European Wall Mount Metal Need Help IDing
« Reply #5 on: April 03, 2015, 03:02:23 PM »
That was a great buy.

Offline Matilo Telephones

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1099
    • Matilo Telephones
Re: European Wall Mount Metal Need Help IDing
« Reply #6 on: April 03, 2015, 04:09:27 PM »
That is a very nice buy! It is quite rare with this type of handset. (I have been looking for one with the older style handset for ages!!!! And some other collectors I know). The handset is indeed original.

It was designed by BTMC in Antwerp and is their 1927 model, originally with dial.

It may have been produced by another Standard Electric branch, as there were many throughout Europe. But Antwerp is your best bet.

The metal castings are made of a material called Zamac. Is that the same as aluminum alloy?

I have added an nice article on the development of BTMC telephones, in particular the successor to this model. The development of this particular type is discussed too. The article is from 1936 and written by BTMC engineers.
« Last Edit: April 03, 2015, 04:59:55 PM by Matilo Telephones »
Groeten,

Arwin

Check out my telephone website: http://www.matilo.eu/?lang=en

And I am on facebook too: www.facebook.com/matilosvintagetelephones

unbeldi

  • Guest
Re: European Wall Mount Metal Need Help IDing
« Reply #7 on: April 03, 2015, 04:29:24 PM »
That is a very nice buy! It is quite rare with this type of handset. (I have been looking for one with the older style handset for ages!!!! And some other collectors I know). The handset is indeed original.

It was designed by BTMC in Antwerp and is their 1926 model, originally with dial.

It may have been produced by another Standard Electric branch, as there were many throughout Europe. But Antwerp is your best bet.

The metal castings are made of a material called Zamac. Is that the same as aluminum alloy?

I have added an nice article on the development of BTMC telephones, in particular the successor to this model. The development of this particular type is discussed too. The article is from 1936 and written by BTMC engineers.

ZAMAC stands for zinc, aluminum, magnesium, and copper. It is a class name of a broad range of zinc alloys, which were standardized, I believe in the 1930s, and the designations are still used today.

Yes, I just researched BTMC handsets, and this is the 2288 type, which is original.

unbeldi

  • Guest
Re: European Wall Mount Metal Need Help IDing
« Reply #8 on: April 03, 2015, 04:42:29 PM »
BTW, I doubt very seriously that they used a zinc alloy when they first made these. Zinc smelting didn't really reach large scale use until the 30s, and that when these standards were developed.  Western Electric didn't use Zinc housings until ca. 1935, Automatic Electric started out with phosphor bronze in the mid 1920s, and I don't think Europe was ahead of the US in this.  Siemens still used steel housings into the early 30s.

Offline Matilo Telephones

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1099
    • Matilo Telephones
Re: European Wall Mount Metal Need Help IDing
« Reply #9 on: April 03, 2015, 05:00:53 PM »
Doug, do you have a picture of that daigram? Do you know what languages are used on it?
Groeten,

Arwin

Check out my telephone website: http://www.matilo.eu/?lang=en

And I am on facebook too: www.facebook.com/matilosvintagetelephones

Online Doug Rose

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 6519
  • Blondie & the Kid of Phone
Re: European Wall Mount Metal Need Help IDing
« Reply #10 on: April 03, 2015, 06:45:46 PM »
Arwin...I will open it up tomorrow...Doug
Kidphone

Offline Matilo Telephones

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1099
    • Matilo Telephones
Re: European Wall Mount Metal Need Help IDing
« Reply #11 on: April 03, 2015, 06:59:20 PM »
Thanks. I'm very curious. :-)

By the way, I have a younger cousin of this phone, with the same handset. I'll post some pics in a seperate thread.
Groeten,

Arwin

Check out my telephone website: http://www.matilo.eu/?lang=en

And I am on facebook too: www.facebook.com/matilosvintagetelephones

Online Doug Rose

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 6519
  • Blondie & the Kid of Phone
Re: European Wall Mount Metal Need Help IDing
« Reply #12 on: April 03, 2015, 07:01:50 PM »
Arwin...I did not know what a nice phone I picked up. I was shocked when Karl told me it was a Bell Systems from Belgium. More than happy!! ...Doug
Kidphone

Online Doug Rose

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 6519
  • Blondie & the Kid of Phone
Re: European Wall Mount Metal Need Help IDing
« Reply #13 on: April 04, 2015, 08:05:52 AM »
Arwin....Here are some pics of the schematic....Doug
« Last Edit: April 04, 2015, 10:27:29 AM by Doug Rose »
Kidphone

unbeldi

  • Guest
Re: European Wall Mount Metal Need Help IDing
« Reply #14 on: April 04, 2015, 09:49:56 AM »
Somebody installed that potentiometer as a volume control when they gutted the phone for use as some kind of audio device or extension.

This was indeed the sidetone ancestor of Arwin's BTMC 2724 type telephone.

It is the identical circuit of, for example, a 50AL desk stand or a B1 handset mounting with a 534A subscriber set, i.e. a 102-type telephone.  Just the placement of switches is slightly rearranged, which of course always follows the construction details of a set.
« Last Edit: April 04, 2015, 10:01:55 AM by unbeldi »