Author Topic: More AE40 Coding Data guesses  (Read 2213 times)

Offline RotoTech99

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More AE40 Coding Data guesses
« on: June 21, 2015, 05:31:00 PM »
I've been collecting more AE40 coding as I see sets online, and from my collection of AE40 sets; So far what I'm figuring out are the two to 4 part codes after the model number...

The dial type appears to be the first letter (A to E) ; A: numerals only dial, B: Dial Blank, C: Metro (numbers and letters), D: (?), E:(?). D and E might refer to a special dial number card, or the cutaway fingerwheel.

The ringer code is the second part; SL representing a straight line ringer, and "##" (frequency number); e.g.: 33 representing a frequency ringer. "0" may be a set supplied less the ringer.

The 4th letter I guess is a feature code... From what I gather, "E" stands for a Extensicord equipped set.

Also, a lot of the model codes are beginning with either "L", "N", or "SN" I have noticed.

Maybe I am getting closer to figuring the codes out.. I'll keep trying.
« Last Edit: June 21, 2015, 05:33:09 PM by RotoTech99 »

Offline Jack Ryan

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Re: More AE40 Coding Data guesses
« Reply #1 on: June 21, 2015, 07:18:04 PM »
RoboTech99,

As I have commented before there are at least two different codes used for the AE 40 and AE 50. The more recent models 41 and 51 are, at least partly, decoded. The model, dial, ringer and cord can be (mostly) decoded; the feature code can't.

The earlier models 40 and 50 are more difficult. I have not seen enough examples of original telephones that retain their code.

If you have a long list of codes with descriptions of original telephones, I suggest you sort them using the model number first - the two model groups can then be sorted on sub-code.

Without AE documentation the only was to decode these numbers is from examples of original telephones still showing their original codes - not an easy task. Keep going though, the more information, the better.

Thanks for your efforts and for posting what you find.

Regards
Jack




Offline RotoTech99

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Re: More AE40 Coding Data guesses
« Reply #2 on: February 11, 2016, 07:30:20 AM »
Dear Forum:

I have noticed that there appears to be two configurations for AE 40's.. I have a couple that have the ring and talk condensers as separate ones with the ring Condenser mounted to the upper housing, and the talk Condenser on the base.

The talk Condenser also has screw terminals as compared to the dual condenser's soldered leads. The ring Condenser is wired to the hook and L1.

I have seen the schematic for that as well.

It is my guess that the AE40's with the configuration of separate condendensers are the early model Type 40, and the dual condenser ones being the later Type 40.

I've also noticed there were "intercom" Type 40's having the separate condenser configuration, except the hookswitch is different, and there was provision for hookup to a local battery.

This would also appear to be confirmed by the earlier 4055 catalogs, except catalog TA-57.
« Last Edit: February 11, 2016, 07:37:46 AM by RotoTech99 »

unbeldi

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Re: More AE40 Coding Data guesses
« Reply #3 on: February 11, 2016, 08:13:04 AM »
RoboTech99,

As I have commented before there are at least two different codes used for the AE 40 and AE 50. The more recent models 41 and 51 are, at least partly, decoded. The model, dial, ringer and cord can be (mostly) decoded; the feature code can't.

The earlier models 40 and 50 are more difficult. I have not seen enough examples of original telephones that retain their code.

If you have a long list of codes with descriptions of original telephones, I suggest you sort them using the model number first - the two model groups can then be sorted on sub-code.

Without AE documentation the only was to decode these numbers is from examples of original telephones still showing their original codes - not an easy task. Keep going though, the more information, the better.

Thanks for your efforts and for posting what you find.

Regards
Jack

I concur with Jack's emphasis on originality—not easy to decide this indeed without knowing the coding scheme already.   Many times I have seen AE40s on which the –A0 vs –B0 designation didn't agree anymore with the presence or absence of a dial anymore.

Sometime in the late 1930s or about the time of the introduction of the type 40, AE completely changed the catalog numbers of their instruments, although the early L-xxx-A/Bn designations could still be found on circuit labels later.

« Last Edit: February 11, 2016, 08:15:38 AM by unbeldi »

unbeldi

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Re: More AE40 Coding Data guesses
« Reply #4 on: February 11, 2016, 08:13:24 AM »
One has to realize that condenser technology changed dramatically overtime with improvements of thin-film technology, and especially drastically after WW-II when German technology was introduced in the US. So that it was more feasible to combine dual condensers into one package and keep it small, in light of AE's practice of using  HUGE (4 µF and 5 µF) capacitors for the talk circuit. Virtually every other manufacturer used only one half that size at most.
But another reason for installing a second condenser may have been that ringers were often switched out in the field when installed on a new subscriber line, because many of the independents used frequency-selective ringing systems and this may have required changing the condenser as well—some ringing frequencies used the same size condenser.   So, it is not clear that the dual condenser examples are original at all.

« Last Edit: February 11, 2016, 08:19:05 AM by unbeldi »

Offline RotoTech99

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Re: More AE40 Coding Data guesses
« Reply #5 on: February 11, 2016, 09:21:58 AM »
Dear Unbeldi:

I believe the dual condenser was meant to "streamline" the AE40 internal wiring... It came in different values for different frenquencies in addition to the
talk condenser.

So most likely the dual condenser is original, but in a sense that it was a update intended to improve serviceability by combining some features.

RotoTech99

unbeldi

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Re: More AE40 Coding Data guesses
« Reply #6 on: February 11, 2016, 10:23:35 AM »
I think we have some confusion here about terms.

I think I said, or meant to say, that the "dual condenser" was NOT original, but the version with separate condensers was.  In the first catalog the part breakdown shows two separate condenser units, IIRC.  As condensers could be produced much smaller in late 40s and 1950s they could be combined, which saved material cost.

dual condenser = two condensers in one container

« Last Edit: February 11, 2016, 10:25:28 AM by unbeldi »

Offline RotoTech99

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Re: More AE40 Coding Data guesses
« Reply #7 on: February 11, 2016, 11:58:46 AM »
Dear Unbeldi:

I got the idea of what you meant; I'm thinking that the dual talk/ring condenser was intended to make servicing and installation easier as a condenser that had already had a talking portion and the appropriate condenser for ringing could be selected and installed acccording to the ringing service used.

The change to plastic coated conductors was probably for the same reasons.

And I have seen an AE40 or two with a second condenser in addition to the dual one.

BTW: I am compiling a list of AE40 model codes from sets I have seen/owned as well.

Offline AE_Collector

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Re: More AE40 Coding Data guesses
« Reply #8 on: February 11, 2016, 03:25:20 PM »
In the past I have used the term "2in1" condensor and "dual" condensors to differentiate the 2 in 1 package condensor from 2 separate condensors in AE phones. I agree that the word dual is being interpreted both ways here.

I have a 40 with a 2in1 and a single condensor as well. Almost certainly a ringer frequency change that was easier to accomplish by adding a new single ringer condensor than swapping out the existing 2in1. This stuff was done in the field sometimes rather than in the rehab shops so whatever got the job done.

RotoTech, have you seen this topic here on the forum?

http://www.classicrotaryphones.com/forum/index.php?topic=5514.0

I have collected a great deal of info into an Excel sheet, much of it from input from forum members, my phone collection and phones seen on ebay that had enough detailed pictures to get most of the info needed. I just havent figured out a good way to interpret the data. Throughout the time that I collected this data I kept adding more and more info (columns) to my Excel sheet attempting to document down to the specific codes on all items even to those found on the transmitter and receiver capsules.

I suspect that the biggest probelm is that phones of the 40's and 50's were typically used, rehabbed, reused and then used again and each trip through the rehab facility led to some changes and part swaps thus it is very difficult to determine what parts found still relates to the base code and what no longer does.

Personally i have never studied the AE catalogs much and always admired Stub's ability (and others) to quote from the catalogs so I have recently printed off some AE catalogs and put them into a ring binder giving me better access to the catalogs to look things up on the fly. I suspect there is good info in them to at least help with deciphering much of the AE coding.

Recently looking at the 34 and 35 in the 4055A catalog (I think) i noticed that AE talked about private line sets sharing a talk capacitor with the ringer (1 capacitor, not a 2 in 1) where as all party line (grounded ringing) sets required that the set be ordered with two capacitors. I haven't looked at later catalogs to see if 40's and 50's were done this way initially or not or if they always equipped these newer models with 2 capacitors (whether separate or 2in1) for flexibility in their use and reuse.

I keep thinking that we should start a topic specific to decoding AE numbering where interested parties can add their input as they stumble upon information but I think we would need to make it very speciific to a particular model such as the 40 (or maybe 40 and 50 together) in order to avoid being significantly sidetracked too much. On the other hand it may actually be easier to do the 34/35 sets first as some of their results will be the same for 40/50 and some wont. 34/35 were made for a much shorter time duration thus limiting the changes due to technological advancement throughout the production years.

Terry
« Last Edit: February 11, 2016, 03:35:23 PM by AE_Collector »

Offline RotoTech99

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Re: More AE40 Coding Data guesses
« Reply #9 on: February 11, 2016, 03:44:04 PM »
I think you have a good idea starting a topic about decoding AE model codes starting with the AE 34 and 35 Series sets.

I seem to run into more AE40's than AE 34's where I am at.

I have seen the topic link you mentioned. and am saving copies of the sheets from there as well as any catalogs I "bump into".

Do you by chance have a copy of the 4055A catalog you could email me at eburnett99@yahoo.com?   I think so far I have copies of  the 4055C, D, and TA-57 catalogs.

Please let me know,
RotoTech99

unbeldi

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Re: More AE40 Coding Data guesses
« Reply #10 on: February 11, 2016, 03:50:22 PM »
...
Recently looking at the 34 and 35 in the 4055A catalog (I think) i noticed that AE talked about private line sets sharing a talk capacitor with the ringer (1 capacitor, not a 2 in 1) where as all party line (grounded ringing) sets required that the set be ordered with two capacitors. I haven't looked at later catalogs to see if 40's and 50's were done this way initially or not or if they always equipped these newer models with 2 capacitors (whether separate or 2in1) for flexibility in their use and reuse.
....
Terry


In the Type 34/35 sets, the circuit permits sharing a single capacitor (1 µF) for both talk and ringing purposes.  While also an anti-sidetone circuit, it is quite different from the anti-sidetone circuit in the AE 40/50, which is essentially the WECo design.

In the 34/35 sets, a second capacitor was only needed when the set was installed on grounded-ringing lines, such as party lines with more than four parties.   With frequency ringing, up to four parties could use metallic ringing on two wires.

In the 40/50 sets, it was no longer possible to share the capacitors, and so every set had to have two, and it didn't matter anymore whether the line was private/individual or whether it was a party line.

The dual capacitor container seems to have been used starting sometime after WWII, the parts lists of 1950 already show a single dual capacitor.  It turns out these are actually smaller, IIRC, than the large single capacitor of earlier times, even smaller than the shared 1µF capacitor of the 34/35.   Of course size is also determined by the maximum (break-down) voltage that the device needs  to be able to handle, and that is much less for the talk capacitor than for the ringing capacitor.


unbeldi

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Re: More AE40 Coding Data guesses
« Reply #11 on: February 11, 2016, 03:55:50 PM »
I think you have a good idea starting a topic about decoding AE model codes starting with the AE 34 and 35 Series sets.

I seem to run into more AE40's than AE 34's where I am at.

I have seen the topic link you mentioned. and am saving copies of the sheets from there as well as any catalogs I "bump into".

Do you by chance have a copy of the 4055A catalog you could email me at eburnett99@yahoo.com?   I think so far I have copies of  the 4055C, D, and TA-57 catalogs.

Please let me know,
RotoTech99


The catalog is on the forum:  http://www.classicrotaryphones.com/forum/index.php?topic=2959.msg153898#msg153898

Here is a list of all we know about:
http://www.classicrotaryphones.com/forum/index.php?topic=2959.msg40198#msg40198

Offline AE_Collector

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Re: More AE40 Coding Data guesses
« Reply #12 on: February 11, 2016, 10:10:39 PM »
I think you have a good idea starting a topic about decoding AE model codes starting with the AE 34 and 35 Series sets.

Okay, here it is:

http://www.classicrotaryphones.com/forum/index.php?topic=15647.0

Terry

Offline Babybearjs

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Re: More AE40 Coding Data guesses
« Reply #13 on: February 11, 2016, 11:22:37 PM »
what about the AE 50... they had the dual caps in them... plus a place for a spare if needed....
John