Author Topic: Northern Electric "Princess"/702B Ringer  (Read 1930 times)

Offline monroe

  • *
  • Posts: 2
Northern Electric "Princess"/702B Ringer
« on: August 12, 2015, 09:00:04 PM »
Hi everyone! I picked up a Northern Electric/Canadian "Princess"-style phone and it has the apparently common problem that it will not ring. I read a few threads on the more common Princess model but mine's a bit trickier, at least for me. Rather than screw terminals, this one has a spade and post system (see here: http://www.classicrotaryphones.com/forum/index.php?topic=8748.0). The board is similar to the one K1WI mapped (http://www.classicrotaryphones.com/forum/index.php?topic=8930.0) BUT I can only see one L1 post, which line green is currently connected to. Most solutions I see say to connect ringer black and red to L1 and K, but mine only accept one connection. Right now the ringer is connected to G and K. Is the problem even with the wiring here?

Any help would be appreciated!

Edit: This makes it sound like it's wired correctly. Is there something else I should check?
« Last Edit: August 12, 2015, 09:44:56 PM by monroe »

Offline poplar1

  • ***
  • Posts: 6265
  • 1051-AL
Re: Northern Electric "Princess"/702B Ringer
« Reply #1 on: August 13, 2015, 10:01:30 AM »
Since your black ringer wire is on the G terminal, and the line is connected to L1 and L2, the black ringer wire is not connected to the (green) line . (The red line wire is connected through the hookswitch (when the phone is hung up), through capacitor A and K to the red ringer wire.) The three (?) "G" terminals are connected to each other, but they are not connected through the network to anything else.

You are correct that the table (in your edit) shows the black ringer wire connected to G. However, there would also be a yellow line cord wire there. I believe that your line cord doesn't have a yellow wire, or it is cut off. In any case, on non-modular cords, it would have been possible to connect the green and yellow leads together on the same terminal at the wall, but this isn't possible inside a modular plug.

I'm surprised that no one has brought this up before, but there appears to be only one terminal for L1 on the QNB4A2 your QNB4A network, so no way to insert two spade tips (the green line cord wire + the black ringer wire) there. Perhaps you could move the green line cord wire directly to G, then run a small jumper wire from L1 to the second G terminal,  in order to have the ringer work. 

How did Bell Canada solve this problem, when they converted lease sets to quarter-modular (i.e., hardwired except for the modular plug end for the wall connection)? Or, were there some later networks with two L1 terminals?

I always wondered why Western Electric took so long to add a second L1 terminal, once they abandoned the soldered hookswitch wires and especially after they started connecting the black ringer wire to L1 for full-modular sets starting in 1972. Not having a second L1 terminal meant having 3 spade tips under one screw, even though the B terminal had two screws for only one spade tip.
« Last Edit: August 13, 2015, 05:16:56 PM by poplar1 »
"C'est pas une restauration, c'est une rénovation."--François Martin.

Offline Ktownphoneco

  • **
  • Posts: 1052
Re: Northern Electric "Princess"/702B Ringer
« Reply #2 on: August 13, 2015, 11:08:48 AM »
Northern revised production on the QNB4A, to a QNB4A-2, which has "two" L1 terminals.    I'm not sure when that occurred specifically, but I have several sets dated "1968" which have the revised terminal board.

Jeff Lamb

Offline G-Man

  • **
  • Posts: 1957
Re: Northern Electric "Princess"/702B Ringer
« Reply #3 on: August 13, 2015, 02:26:33 PM »
The following wiring diagram for a 702BQ1A shows a QNB4A2 network which has only one “L1” terminal but also a three-position “G” terminal post. Of course the solution for the hardwired cord was to connect yellow to green at the connecting block.  If the QNB4A has also has a three-position “G” terminal post, then, perhaps the green wire should be connected to one of the three-positions of the “G” terminal posts and a short jumper run one of the other positions to the single-position “L1” terminal.

Offline Ktownphoneco

  • **
  • Posts: 1052
Re: Northern Electric "Princess"/702B Ringer
« Reply #4 on: August 13, 2015, 03:40:32 PM »
Northern Princess chassis, with QNB4A-2 Network dated 6-68, with "two" "L1" terminals.    Picture attached.

Jeff Lamb

Offline G-Man

  • **
  • Posts: 1957
Re: Northern Electric "Princess"/702B Ringer
« Reply #5 on: August 13, 2015, 04:03:04 PM »
Northern Princess chassis, with QNB4A-2 Network dated 6-68, with "two" "L1" terminals.    Picture attached.

Jeff Lamb

Must be an oversight by NECo on their wiring diagram. I would assume that the -2 suffix was intended to denote the second terminal.

Also, here is what Northern stated regarding networks for this model of PRINCESS®:

        SET            NETWORK
  • 702BQIA (a)   QNB4A-2 
  • 702BQIA (b)   QNB17A 

    (a) Manufactured before Jan. 1, 1970.
    (b) Manufactured after Jan. 1, 1970.




Offline DNO

  • *
  • Posts: 90
Re: Northern Electric "Princess"/702B Ringer
« Reply #6 on: August 13, 2015, 04:16:53 PM »
I've received so much helpful advice from people on this forum that it's an absolute pleasure to be able to help someone in return!

I had EXACTLY the same problem last week.  I picked up a lovely white Northern Electric 702B Princess for $10 at a house contents sale nearby.  Like so many phones from that period, it didn't ring either and it turned out to be the black wire and L1 issue as it so often is.  But then I ran into those small post terminals and the fact there was only one L1.  The posts are definitely not meant to cope with doubled up spade terminals.

So I ended up doing the following:
--I loosen the green wire on the L1 post...lifted it just a bit (not all the way off the post)
--then I took the black wire from G and slid it onto the L1 post but perpendicular to the post and underneath the green wire's spade,
--the black wire fit quite snuggly to the post.  Then I pushed the green wire back down the post, holding the black wire more firmly in position.

The photo really shows it all, I hope.

Now it rings...no problem!

Hope that helps.
David

Offline monroe

  • *
  • Posts: 2
Re: Northern Electric "Princess"/702B Ringer
« Reply #7 on: August 13, 2015, 04:23:23 PM »
Thanks for the response so far! I moved line green to G, put in a jumper from G to L1, and left ringer black at the third G post. It calls, so my jumper is working, but there's still no ring. I thought that would be it, too.

Offline Ktownphoneco

  • **
  • Posts: 1052
Re: Northern Electric "Princess"/702B Ringer
« Reply #8 on: August 13, 2015, 07:14:00 PM »
Move the ringer's black conductor to terminal "K" on the network card or board.

Jeff Lamb

Offline G-Man

  • **
  • Posts: 1957
Re: Northern Electric "Princess"/702B Ringer
« Reply #9 on: August 13, 2015, 07:24:52 PM »
Thanks for the response so far! I moved line green to G, put in a jumper from G to L1, and left ringer black at the third G post. It calls, so my jumper is working, but there's still no ring. I thought that would be it, too.

According to the wiring diagram the black ringer wire should be on the “G” terminal (in this case with the green wire from the linecord), and the red ringer wire should be connected to the “K” terminal.

Offline G-Man

  • **
  • Posts: 1957
Re: Northern Electric "Princess"/702B Ringer
« Reply #10 on: August 13, 2015, 07:29:19 PM »
Also, check to see that you can freely move the ringer’s amature/striker with your fingers. This is to make certain that for some reason it is not immobilized or that the loudness control is not hindering it.

Offline Ktownphoneco

  • **
  • Posts: 1052
Re: Northern Electric "Princess"/702B Ringer
« Reply #11 on: August 13, 2015, 07:47:06 PM »
I stand corrected. Ringer conductors : slate - stored (not connected);  slate / red : stored (not connected);  red - connected to "K" on terminal board; black - connected to "L1", either directly or connected to "G" with a jumper between "G" and "L1".

Jeff Lamb