Author Topic: Please verify AE34A3B? Update:AE34A3A  (Read 13172 times)

unbeldi

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Re: Please verify AE34A3B? Update:AE34A3A
« Reply #60 on: September 16, 2015, 09:18:13 AM »
Tina....did it work with the handset that you received the phone with? It is the correct handset and will look great. Did the handset have the chrome caps that match the dial? I'd keep it as is, but that's just me. Did it clean up well with the Citrix stripper?....Doug


The handset that came with the phone is a painted type 41 - not the correct handset. Or have I missed something?

Jack

Jack ...I had found two of what I thought were AE34A3Bs with the chrome dial and matching chrome bands so I thought it was the correct handset. Neither had the cutout. Both phones were in working order. I guess I was wrong....Doug
Doug,

No, in your case you are correct.
The 34A3B indeed came with a No. 41 handset and did not have the lift cut-out.

But this is not a 34A3B;Tina's phone is a 34A3A.


unbeldi

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Re: Please verify AE34A3B?
« Reply #61 on: September 16, 2015, 11:15:24 AM »
I don't believe in the "development" hypothesis per se, but surely they must have considered the experience with all variant for the design of the Type 40.

No, I don't any longer either. I think the AE 34A3A was intended as a compatible offering for AE 34A3 users. In the end, it was not a success and the AE 34A3B replaced it.

Experience with the handle of the AE 34A3A probably convinced AE not to use it for the 40

Jack

I suspect that the Type 34A3A was probably AE's response to the arrival of the 302 telephone by Western Electric in 1937, which featured this same type of "easy lift" feature, the rear hand-hold space for fingers between the cradle posts.

Rdelius reported that the advertisement he found was from 1938, which perfectly fits the time frame.

The hookswitch rod in the middle of the finger space made the carrying feature probably a bit awkward, perhaps even unreliable?  So, when redesigning the set as the Type 40, which was out the following year, 1939, they followed Western Electric and used two plungers in the cradle ears.  They also implemented a new anti-sidetone circuit which is in essence the same as the WECo circuit, resulting in better transmission quality.


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Re: Please verify AE34A3B? Update:AE34A3A
« Reply #62 on: September 16, 2015, 12:14:23 PM »
Great discussion everyone. I have never had such a complete understanding of the variations of the AE 34 set.

34A3  - type 38 "style" handset, no handhold, original tilted ringer mount and coil beneath ringer.

34A3A - type 38 "style" handset, with handhold, flat ringer mount.

34A3B - type 41 handset & wider cradle area, no handhold, ....ringer?

What else can I add to this summary?

Terry



« Last Edit: September 16, 2015, 11:33:58 PM by AE_Collector »

unbeldi

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Re: Please verify AE34A3B? Update:AE34A3A
« Reply #63 on: September 16, 2015, 12:27:56 PM »
Great discussion everyone. I have never had such a complete understanding of the variations of the AE 34 set.

34A3 - type 38 handset, no handhold, original tilted ringer mount.

34A3A - type 38 handset, with handhold, flat ringer mount.

34A3B - type 41 handset & wider cradle area, no handhold, flat ringer mount, new anti sidetone circuit.

What else can I add to this summary?

Terry

I do not believe that the 34A3B used a new AST circuit yet.  I think this is explained on page 16 in 4055C, where it states:

Thus, the telephone company
retains the advantages of standardization in
circuit and in most of the major components;


The circuit is the famous anti-sidetone
circuit which has been standard in central-battery
Monophones for many years.


For operating organizations
which have standardized on this circuit, and wish
to continue its use, the Type 34A3B Monophone will
prove exceptionally satisfactory.



The new circuit was reserved for the Type 40 Monophone.

However, they speak of transmission improvements for the 34A3B.  I believe this only resulted from the new transmitter and receiver elements, not from any circuit changes.  However, reviewing my circuits, the dimensioning of the induction coil is different, probably adjusted for the new Type 41 transmitter and receiver elements.  I have drawn real circuit diagrams for all three variants, and they are all identical in the layout.


PS:

34A3:
*circuit label:  D-53548  (does anyone have a label to show?)
*induction coil: 13Ω:14.5Ω:220Ω

with induction coil in receiver:
*circuit label: D53551

34A3A:
*circuit label:  D-53677 (dial, metallic ringing)  D-53676 (dial, grounded ringing, two-condensers)
*induction coil: 20Ω:30Ω:220Ω

34A3B:
*circuit label:  D-53548 (dial, metallic ringing)
*induction coil: 13Ω:14.5Ω:220Ω


« Last Edit: February 27, 2017, 12:18:29 PM by unbeldi »

Offline wds

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Re: Please verify AE34A3B? Update:AE34A3A
« Reply #64 on: September 16, 2015, 02:17:58 PM »
34A3A wiring diagram (with carry handle)
« Last Edit: September 17, 2015, 01:13:53 PM by wds »
Dave

unbeldi

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Re: Please verify AE34A3B? Update:AE34A3A
« Reply #65 on: September 16, 2015, 02:47:38 PM »
34A3 wiring diagram

I believe that diagram came out of a 34A3A,  it has the ordering number (L-250-A0) stamped on it.

The order number for the original 34A3 was L220A0,  or L22x  where x = 0,1, 4,5, and A0 for dial, B0 for manual.

It is possible of course that the form labels were indeed the same, but we should verify with one that actually has the proper order number on it.
« Last Edit: September 16, 2015, 02:51:16 PM by unbeldi »

Offline wds

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Re: Please verify AE34A3B? Update:AE34A3A
« Reply #66 on: September 16, 2015, 02:53:09 PM »
try this - from model 34A3.   (no carry handle)
« Last Edit: September 17, 2015, 01:14:36 PM by wds »
Dave

unbeldi

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Re: Please verify AE34A3B? Update:AE34A3A
« Reply #67 on: September 16, 2015, 03:00:12 PM »
try this.  The other label came out of my 34 with the carry handle.

Interesting,  it does have the correct order number (for manual service),  but I believe this is the form for the 34A3B, with the revised induction coil (13:14:220) for the Type 41 handset.  Does that say D53548 Issue 2?
« Last Edit: September 16, 2015, 03:07:51 PM by unbeldi »

Offline wds

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Re: Please verify AE34A3B? Update:AE34A3A
« Reply #68 on: September 16, 2015, 03:07:17 PM »
I will check it when I get home tonight.
Dave

Offline cloyd

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Re: Please verify AE34A3B? Update:AE34A3A
« Reply #69 on: September 16, 2015, 03:10:02 PM »
Here you go.  Induction coil receiver is not the one for your phone, you need the regular one (3rd pic ) with two wires on the  receiver . stub
Stub,
Thank you for the photos.  They speak a thousand words.  I think I am understanding, slowly but...OK, slowly.  Stub, would you be so kind as to take photos of the profile of the AST-type 38 handset side-by-side with the non-AST type 38?  I want to make sure I fully understand the description that Jack gave me of the correct non-AST type 38 characteristics. 
Jack wrote:
The handsets you displayed are the correct type. There are several versions of that handset; most can be distinguished from the outside - only the AST type handset can't.
The correct handset:
- has a flat surface on the underside of the handle as shown in your images
- has a sloping transmitter module (and a type 41 transmitter) - I assume this is correct as the phone was released after the type 41 handset.
- has chrome (not nickel) or black bands
- has a black cord not a brown one
To determine if the handset is an AST type or not you need to see inside. The AST *receiver* has a single round coil inside and it is not magnetic - that is, the diaphragm will fall off.
Jack

Also, could I bother you for a photo of the interior of the non-AST type 38?  I think I know what I should see there but I want to make sure.
Thank you to everyone for your input,
Tina
-- I am always doing what I cannot do yet, in order to learn how to do it. - Van Gogh -- 1885

Offline wds

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Re: Please verify AE34A3B? Update:AE34A3A
« Reply #70 on: September 16, 2015, 03:11:37 PM »
Here's a picture of the inside of the phone that goes with the label L220-
Dave

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Re: Please verify AE34A3B? Update:AE34A3A
« Reply #71 on: September 16, 2015, 03:25:04 PM »
Tina....did it work with the handset that you received the phone with? It is the correct handset and will look great. Did the handset have the chrome caps that match the dial? I'd keep it as is, but that's just me. Did it clean up well with the Citrix stripper?....Doug

I haven't put much labor into any of my phones lately.  I teach high school biology and we are back into the full swing of things.  That means that the rest of my life gets put on hold.  I will strip the phone over Thanksgiving or Christmas when I have some time off.  Sitting in my favorite chair combing through ebay for phones and parts is about all the gumption I can muster in the evenings.
I will certainly post pictures when I get it cleaned up!
Tina

-- I am always doing what I cannot do yet, in order to learn how to do it. - Van Gogh -- 1885

unbeldi

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Re: Please verify AE34A3B? Update:AE34A3A
« Reply #72 on: September 16, 2015, 03:30:34 PM »
Here's a picture of the inside of the phone that goes with the label L220-

The base could be either the 34A3 or the 34A3B, indeed.  The dial appears to be a Type 51 added much later, so likely this was a manual phone at one time, confirmed by the B0 code.  So perhaps the housing does go with the base.

Also, the diagram is stamped with an A, likely a frequency ringer designation and the ringer in the phone indeed is likely a 16 Hz ringer.

The only question is the exact dimensions around the cradle area, could this phone reliably accommodate the Type 41 handset or not?  Have you run the test described in early (I think).

The induction coil looks rather new, judging by the end blocks.  Did they use screws with this finish already in the mid-30s or did they use brass screws?

« Last Edit: September 16, 2015, 03:33:18 PM by unbeldi »

Offline stub

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Re: Please verify AE34A3B? Update:AE34A3A
« Reply #73 on: September 16, 2015, 03:34:26 PM »
Tina,
        Can't post any pics , wife left camera at sisters house .   stub
Kenneth Stubblefield        
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Offline wds

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Re: Please verify AE34A3B? Update:AE34A3A
« Reply #74 on: September 16, 2015, 04:07:33 PM »
I actually no longer have that particular phone.  I have been very curious about the cradle measurements, and asked for measurements in the past, but haven't received any.  I have tried the test of sliding the receiver to see if it drops (or rises?), but I have never been able to get the results that other people have reported.  I have used a micrometer to measure some of the cradle openings on my 34's, but they always seem to be the same.  Attached are some measurements I have taken in the past.  I remember that the ringer was a frequency ringer, but it rang nice and loud.
Dave