Author Topic: Please verify AE34A3B? Update:AE34A3A  (Read 13098 times)

Offline wds

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Re: Please verify AE34A3B? Update:AE34A3A
« Reply #75 on: September 16, 2015, 05:54:53 PM »
I just received another 34 in the mail today and it had a wiring diagram.  Maybe this one will work?
Dave

unbeldi

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Re: Please verify AE34A3B? Update:AE34A3A
« Reply #76 on: September 16, 2015, 06:21:11 PM »
I just received another 34 in the mail today and it had a wiring diagram.  Maybe this one will work?

Thanks, the plot thickens.
It is the same diagram, once again,  D-53548.  Correct catalog number, this time the dial version.
Also a frequency ringer?

Perhaps they used the same labels, before and after the 34A3A.  [well, before and after is not the right phrasing, rather in terms of model number sequencing].

But why would they have switched the induction coil to higher resistances for the 34A3A when the handset was identical.  Perhaps it wasn't?  This raises a question that I have had for some time.  How did the type number for the handset come about: Type 38?  From my reading this type designation was only ever mentioned after they had already pronounced the new handset for the AE40 as Type 41.  Before the AE40, the handset was only ever known as the Monophone hand set or hand unit, order number (... 900 ... series).


Has any one  a Form D-53548 ISSUE 1, rather than 2 ?
« Last Edit: September 16, 2015, 06:27:34 PM by unbeldi »

Offline AE_Collector

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Re: Please verify AE34A3B? Update:AE34A3A
« Reply #77 on: September 16, 2015, 06:30:07 PM »
I was of the impression that the type 38 handset used the removable capsul type receiver and transmitter elements which fits with your idea that the type 38 only existed from the time of the type 41 handset on. The similar looking handsets to the type 38 that did not use removable capsules were not in fact type 38 but a previous longer part number rather than a "type xx".

Terry

Offline wds

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Re: Please verify AE34A3B? Update:AE34A3A
« Reply #78 on: September 16, 2015, 06:31:25 PM »
Pictures of the inside - SL ringer.  Nice older dial that clicks when you spin it.
Dave

unbeldi

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Re: Please verify AE34A3B? Update:AE34A3A
« Reply #79 on: September 16, 2015, 07:16:03 PM »
I was of the impression that the type 38 handset used the removable capsul type receiver and transmitter elements which fits with your idea that the type 38 only existed from the time of the type 41 handset on. The similar looking handsets to the type 38 that did not use removable capsules were not in fact type 38 but a previous longer part number rather than a "type xx".

Terry

Ah, thanks for that.  Sure makes sense.
So, the question is when the first capsules appeared, and which of the three models used them.  This doesn't make it any easier for Tina to find a handset.

unbeldi

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Re: Please verify AE34A3B? Update:AE34A3A
« Reply #80 on: September 16, 2015, 07:18:04 PM »
Pictures of the inside - SL ringer.  Nice older dial that clicks when you spin it.

So, the dates of the patents listed on your label are no later than 1932.
Does the handset have capsules?

Offline Jack Ryan

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Re: Please verify AE34A3B? Update:AE34A3A
« Reply #81 on: September 16, 2015, 08:05:23 PM »
I haven’t been able to keep up with this thread because work has been a bit hectic. Here is a quick summary of what I think I know about the Type 38 style handset. Note that I use “Type 38 style” and sometimes just “Type 38” to refer to all of these handsets even though they were only called Type 38 when it was needed to distinguish it from the Type 41 handset.

Type 38 Style Handsets
This handset was introduced in 1925 and remained with little change into the 1940s. It had a variety of names:
== Transmitter-receiver unit (telephone referred to as the Monophone)
== Monophone Hand Unit
== Type 38 Handset (to distinguish it from the Type 41)
Despite changes to the shape of the handle, it remained compatible with newer modules and caps.

So far, I have found four different handles:
== Round – AE Inc
== Round – AE CO (this change can be dated from the company name change)
== Wide Flat bottom
== Narrow Flat bottom

Three different transmitter caps:
== The original slotted cap
== The deep "spit cup" cap for the solid back and 35A7 modules
== The shallow "spit cup" cap for the type 41 module

And four different transmitter modules:
== 5C1 (CB solid back)
== 5L (LB solid back)
== 35A7 (the first AE position independent transmitter) (Uses older cap)
== Type 41 (updated position independent module from the Type 41 handset AE 40))

All of the handles are compatible with respect to transmitters, receivers and caps.

Jack

Offline AE_Collector

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Re: Please verify AE34A3B? Update:AE34A3A
« Reply #82 on: September 16, 2015, 11:15:56 PM »
Good info Jack. I am aware of some subtle changes to the handle in addition to the capsule types but have not studdied them close enough to come up with descriptions for them like yours. Good stuff.

And yes, it could be that the name "type 38" for one of the handset variations (or all variations) isn't directly tied to a change of capsules or the shape but indeed could be a name introduced simply to differentiate it from the newer type 41 handset as there had only been the one "style" of monophone handset until the type 41 was introduced. (definition of Monophone by AE at some point in time likely early on was the handset having both transmitter and receiver in a single unit as opposed to the old two piece design used phones)

I have a question about the ringer and coil in the 34A3B. This may have been answered already.  Did the ringer and coil revert back to the original angle type with the coil beneath or did it continue with the new design introduced on the 34A3A?

Terry

Offline Jack Ryan

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Re: Please verify AE34A3B? Update:AE34A3A
« Reply #83 on: September 17, 2015, 12:31:54 AM »
Terry,

As far as I can tell, AE used the word Monophone to describe a telephone (or rest)  and the handset. Originally the handset was called a transmitter-receiver unit and subsequently a "Monophone hand unit".

The A3B reverted to the original AE 34A3 bell coil arrangement. Except for the handset and the modified case, the parts were identical and the phone was promoted to those operating companies that had standardised on the AE 34 and had significant parts in store but wanted the improved transmission that the Type 41 handset provided.

By the way, the Type 38 handsets with the flat handle also had a different side elevation profile. You would know exactly what I meant if you could see my arms waving...

Jack

Offline AE_Collector

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Re: Please verify AE34A3B? Update:AE34A3A
« Reply #84 on: September 17, 2015, 02:03:13 AM »
I have two 34's ripped apart here tonight comparing parts and looking for codes etc. I figured they were both original 34A3's as they are basically identical. No wiring diagram in either but they both have labels on the outside (bottom) of the base, one ink stamped and the other a paper label. Both have the same 6 patent numbers and DES # 86263. One has L235 B0 stamped on the base and the other does not have a similar stamp of code numbers anywhere.

Just as I finished putting them back together I decided to try a type 41 handset on the cradle and I was surprised to find that it fit nicely on one but not the other. As someone tried to describe earlier, the type 41 binds a bit in the cradle on the transmitter end of the handle. The phone with L235 stamped on the base is the one that the type 41 fits nicely on.

I dont have calipers or anything to do any accurate measuring but I have a tape measure. Of course with rounded corners measurements are subjective but....The outside measurement over the left cradle ear to the far side of the right cradle ear is the same or very close. 3 & 5/8" overall. From the front of a front ear to the back of a back ear is about 2 & 1/8". The phone that the type 41 handset fits nicely on might be very very slightly smaller dimensions for each of these measurements but it is not much.

The best thing I could find to tell the difference is the width of the flat top portion of any cradle ear. The phone that doesnt like the type 41 has a cradle ear about 9/16" wide while the one that likes the type 41 is only about 7/16" wide.

There is a slight difference in the case where it bulges out to fit over and around the angled ringer right behind the back cradle ears as well. Hard to explain and I dont "do" pictures with edited in lines, arrows & descriptions etc. No idea how. But the case on the one that likes the type 41 pushes straight back just a little bit further than the other before angling downwards.

So I am guessing that I might have a 34A3 and a 34A3B that has had a type 38 handset put on it. Everything electrical appears to be identical on these two phones.

Terry

« Last Edit: September 17, 2015, 02:08:50 AM by AE_Collector »

unbeldi

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Re: Please verify AE34A3B? Update:AE34A3A
« Reply #85 on: September 17, 2015, 08:32:41 AM »

So I am guessing that I might have a 34A3 and a 34A3B that has had a type 38 handset put on it. Everything electrical appears to be identical on these two phones.

Terry

Are the induction coils labeled at all?
Would it be possible for you to measure their resistance across the primary or secondary coils?
If any differences, it should be 13 vs 20 ohms (P) and 14 vs 30 ohms (S).

Other than that, the two bases should be identical. We don't appear to have records anywhere that describe what AE sets underwent during refurbishing, as we do for the Bell System, where they dotted, striped, or marked the smallest nuances of sets.


Offline AE_Collector

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Re: Please verify AE34A3B? Update:AE34A3A
« Reply #86 on: September 17, 2015, 10:56:07 AM »
Both induction coils marked D-282155.

I will see if I can get the time to measure resistance tonight.

Here in British Columbia Canada we had our "shops" that did all the refurbishing work for the BC Telephone Company. They did their own thing and nothing was ever marked in the process that I know of.

Terry
« Last Edit: September 17, 2015, 10:59:13 AM by AE_Collector »

unbeldi

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Re: Please verify AE34A3B? Update:AE34A3A
« Reply #87 on: September 17, 2015, 11:38:22 AM »
thanks,
I suppose there was no reason to mark modifications and such if you don't have the goal or scope of world domination, lol.

As you are having a hard time distinguishing between the old cradle and the 34A3B cradle, I would think that shop techs were in the same position, while not even having allotted time for such details, and refurbished whatever came in to whatever they were told to produce.

I just hope they didn't change induction coil numbers just because they used brown paper vs black paper around the windings.

The patent for this induction coil is No. 1878800, usually listed on the AE stickers. It explains mostly the virtues of their molded Bakelite in protecting wires and connections, but I cannot help to assume this was a much more expensive product than what WECo still used at the time, simple wood blocks, chop chop drill.

Offline wds

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Re: Please verify AE34A3B? Update:AE34A3A
« Reply #88 on: September 17, 2015, 01:18:39 PM »
I took another stab at measuring the cradles on the different models.  I will fill in the 2nd column when I get home tonight.  If someone could take measurements of the 3rd model type that would be great. 
« Last Edit: September 17, 2015, 01:20:12 PM by wds »
Dave

Offline cloyd

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Re: Please verify AE34A3B? Update:AE34A3A
« Reply #89 on: September 17, 2015, 03:52:54 PM »
I haven’t been able to keep up with this thread because work has been a bit hectic. Here is a quick summary of what I think I know about the Type 38 style handset. Note that I use “Type 38 style” and sometimes just “Type 38” to refer to all of these handsets even though they were only called Type 38 when it was needed to distinguish it from the Type 41 handset.

Type 38 Style Handsets
This handset was introduced in 1925 and remained with little change into the 1940s. It had a variety of names:
== Transmitter-receiver unit (telephone referred to as the Monophone)
== Monophone Hand Unit
== Type 38 Handset (to distinguish it from the Type 41)
Despite changes to the shape of the handle, it remained compatible with newer modules and caps.

So far, I have found four different handles:
== Round – AE Inc
== Round – AE CO (this change can be dated from the company name change)
== Wide Flat bottom
== Narrow Flat bottom

Three different transmitter caps:
== The original slotted cap
== The deep "spit cup" cap for the solid back and 35A7 modules
== The shallow "spit cup" cap for the type 41 module

And four different transmitter modules:
== 5C1 (CB solid back)
== 5L (LB solid back)
== 35A7 (the first AE position independent transmitter) (Uses older cap)
== Type 41 (updated position independent module from the Type 41 handset AE 40))

All of the handles are compatible with respect to transmitters, receivers and caps.

Jack

Great information Jack!  The AE1A phone handset looks like the type 38.  If it is, can you tell which type this is?  This picture is from the beautiful phone that celnout has on ebay.
Thanks,
Tina
-- I am always doing what I cannot do yet, in order to learn how to do it. - Van Gogh -- 1885