Author Topic: WECo 201A Wiring Advice  (Read 3145 times)

Offline rp2813

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WECo 201A Wiring Advice
« on: October 14, 2015, 12:48:28 PM »
I'm getting ready to install a WECo 201A-3_ (it has no handset and I'll be giving it one of my spare F1 types) over the bench my workshop.

With unbeldi's help and patience, I got my 554C subset working with my D1 set, which has freed up my 634BC for use with the 201A.

I've searched using the model number and the term "space saver" but haven't found any information on wiring for one of these manual sets.  There are no snipped wiring remnants attached to the set, so I'm starting from scratch.

Did I miss something when I did my searching?  I need to know how to connect the handset and both ends of the mounting cord. 

Any assistance with this or direction to a thread that covers it would be appreciated.

Ralph

Offline NorthernElectric

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Re: WECo 201A Wiring Advice
« Reply #1 on: October 14, 2015, 02:03:59 PM »
Here are a couple of documents from the TCI library for the C1 mounting, but they both appear to be for connection to a sidetone subset:

C1 Handset Mountings, Manual C1 Cording
C1 Handset Mountings, Manual Stations

To connect yours to your 634, this forum topic may be of more help.  It is more specifically for the B and D mountings but has wiring for 6xx anti-sidetone subsets.
Cliff

Offline rp2813

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Re: WECo 201A Wiring Advice
« Reply #2 on: October 14, 2015, 02:32:54 PM »
Cliff, thanks for the TCI library links.  It looks simple enough, with color coded terminals that correspond with the leads. 

I hope to get to work on this over the next couple of days.
Ralph

Offline poplar1

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Re: WECo 201A Wiring Advice
« Reply #3 on: October 14, 2015, 02:34:39 PM »
C-1 handset mounting without dial:
White handset ------> W-BB (hookswitch terminal)
Black handset -------> Y-BK (hookswitch terminal)
Red handset ---------> R (terminal block)

Green from subset ---> GN (hookswitch terminal)
Yellow from subset ---> Y (hookswitch terminal
Red from subset -----> R (terminal block)
Black from subset ----> Y-BK (hookswitch terminal)

Nothing connected to other two terminals on terminal block (W and BK)

SUBSET:

Green ----> GN on induction coil
Red ------> R on induction coil
Yellow ----> L2-Y
Black -----> BK (with black talking capacitor wire)

Line:

Ring (Red) (-) ----> L1
Tip (Green ) (+) ----> L2-Y
« Last Edit: October 14, 2015, 09:18:24 PM by poplar1 »
"C'est pas une restauration, c'est une rénovation."--François Martin.

unbeldi

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Re: WECo 201A Wiring Advice
« Reply #4 on: October 14, 2015, 02:41:25 PM »
Basically you already know what to do, as you've done it already.
The terminal designations on WECo sets is always the same, and you can more or less copy your D1. You probably also know which dial contacts should be permanently closed or not at all in a manual phone.

Offline rp2813

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Re: WECo 201A Wiring Advice
« Reply #5 on: October 14, 2015, 05:22:27 PM »
Thanks for the additional information, and yes, I thought if I had to, I could figure it out from my D1.

I checked my 634BC.  It's outfitted with a 101A, and the wood block has been altered with connecting points removed that are now found on the 101A. 

What I didn't find on the subset were certain connection points provided on the BSP illustration from the TCI library.  I'll use this latest information and see if it coordinates with what I have, and if not, I'll post a shot of the 634, which remains configured for the D1 from which I just disconnected it.
Ralph

Offline rp2813

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Re: WECo 201A Wiring Advice
« Reply #6 on: October 14, 2015, 05:48:14 PM »
OK, there is no L2-Y terminal on the subset (see below).  The L2-Y connector on the wood block was removed, leaving only the L2 on the coil.   Calling upon Centrex terminology, do we have an "Assume Y" situation with the L2 now?

I was planning on using some 3-conductor station wire to connect the "handset" and the subset.  Per the BSP illustration, the 4th (black) conductor isn't used, and poplar's question mark would seem to substantiate this. 

Should I proceed with connecting the yellow "handset" lead to L2 and leave it at that?  Per the current configuration, the L2 terminal on the coil will be a rather busy spot, and I'm noticing differences in where the speech and ring condenser leads are connected compared to the 554C.
« Last Edit: October 14, 2015, 05:51:03 PM by rp2813 »
Ralph

Offline NorthernElectric

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Re: WECo 201A Wiring Advice
« Reply #7 on: October 14, 2015, 06:21:20 PM »
OK, there is no L2-Y terminal on the subset (see below).  The L2-Y connector on the wood block was removed, leaving only the L2 on the coil.   Calling upon Centrex terminology, do we have an "Assume Y" situation with the L2 now?

...


Should I proceed with connecting the yellow "handset" lead to L2 and leave it at that?  Per the current configuration, the L2 terminal on the coil will be a rather busy spot, and I'm noticing differences in where the speech and ring condenser leads are connected compared to the 554C.

If you loosen the screw on the wire that is already connected to L2 on the coil and push it aside just a bit you might find a 'Y' hiding under there, but if not L2=L2-Y.  Also you will notice that there are 2 terminal screws strapped together at L2-Y so you don't have to connect all 3 wires to the same terminal.  And you don't connect any handset leads directly to the subset.  Did you mean the yellow mounting cord wire?  (The 'mounting cord' is that which connects the phone to the subset.

I was planning on using some 3-conductor station wire to connect the "handset" and the subset.  Per the BSP illustration, the 4th (black) conductor isn't used, and poplar's question mark would seem to substantiate this. 

I hope I haven't confused you with the TCI links, but I was suggesting that you don't use the one with the wiring diagram, as it shows a 3 conductor mounting cord which would be used to connect to a sidetone subset.  I thought the other one might be useful to illustrate routing of the handset and mounting cords.  I suggested that you use W.E. 102, 202 and subset easy wiring diagrams, and specifically the illustrations labelled 'B-&D- Mount for 202 Manual Service' and 634/684 SUBSET (101A induction coil) to wire your phone to the subset.  And you will probably want to use a 4 conductor mounting cord to connect to your subset, as shown on those diagrams and in poplar1's post.  Got any 4 conductor station wire?   :)

SUBSET:

Green ----> GN on induction coil
Red ------> R on induction coil
Yellow ----> L2-Y
Black -----> BK?
« Last Edit: October 14, 2015, 06:37:22 PM by NorthernElectric »
Cliff

Offline poplar1

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Re: WECo 201A Wiring Advice
« Reply #8 on: October 14, 2015, 06:47:35 PM »
The black conductor from the phone connnects in the subset to the black capacitor wire.

I can't read the designations of all the terminals on the wood block in your photo; but two are used: one for the black ringer wire +  (slate)ringing capacitor wire; the other for the black talking capacitor wire and the black wire from the phone.

D1 is a handset mounting --not a complete phone
E1E is a handset.
D1 handset mounting + E1E handset= 202 (or 102) hand telephone set
« Last Edit: October 14, 2015, 09:50:54 PM by poplar1 »
"C'est pas une restauration, c'est une rénovation."--François Martin.

Offline NorthernElectric

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Re: WECo 201A Wiring Advice
« Reply #9 on: October 14, 2015, 07:24:03 PM »
The black conductor from the phone connnects in the subset to the black capacitor wire.

I can't read the designations of all the terminals on the wood block in your photo; but two are used: one for the black ringer wire +  (slate)ringing capacitor wire; the other for the black talking capacigtor wire and the black wire from the phone.

D1 is a handset mounting --not a complete phone
E1E is a handset.
D1 handset mounting + E1E handset= 202 (or 102) hand telephone set

There's a terminal on the left that might be labelled 'K' with the black ringer wire strapped to 'RR' with what looks like maybe red with brown (or slate?) stripes.  If this wire goes to the ring circuit capacitor maybe that's the slate wire.  There is definitely a 'BK' terminal on the right with what I think might be the black capacitor wire (though it looks brownish in the photo).
Cliff

unbeldi

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Re: WECo 201A Wiring Advice
« Reply #10 on: October 14, 2015, 08:53:56 PM »
The terminals on the board of a 634-BC should be RR (to ringing cap), GND (black ringer), YY (red ringer), and BK (audio cap).
Some may also have an E terminal (empty).  So you have to map them to the 634-A equivalents (RR=K).

This subset was converted from an earlier type, and when the 101A coil upgrade kit was installed they also removed some of the old terminals.  There is no K terminal on a 634/684-BC, for example, that only a feature of the 634A.

Many WECo diagrams and catalog descriptions show the L2 terminal of the 101A coil having two labels, L2 and Y, for the two screws, but I don't think there was ever a Y label on the actual part.


« Last Edit: October 14, 2015, 09:07:34 PM by unbeldi »

Offline poplar1

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Re: WECo 201A Wiring Advice
« Reply #11 on: October 14, 2015, 09:07:06 PM »

Many WECo diagrams and catalog descriptions show the L2 terminal of the 101A coil having two labels, L2 and Y, for the two screws, but I don't think there was ever a Y label on the actual part.


As Cliff pointed out, the "Y" is hiding under the wire. Here's another 101A (NE posted by Jeff) showing the Y:
http://www.classicrotaryphones.com/forum/index.php?topic=14563.msg154212#msg154212

"C'est pas une restauration, c'est une rénovation."--François Martin.

Offline rp2813

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Re: WECo 201A Wiring Advice
« Reply #12 on: October 14, 2015, 09:09:40 PM »
Cliff, yes, that is the K terminal strapped to the RR.   The black lead from the ringer is on K and the red/brown(?) lead from the ringer capacitor is on RR.  The dark lead from the talk capacitor is on BK.  The other lead from the talk capacitor is on C.  So, the BK has an empty connector awaiting the black mounting lead -- I'll dig up some 4-conductor station wire.

After reading the most recent post from unbeldi, it appears there's some reconfiguring to do.

Also, there was indeed a Y designation under the lead connected to L2, so L2-Y does apply to this particular 101A.

It was my mistake by not referencing the C1 as a "handset mounting" instead of simply the handset, which likely caused confusion.

Cliff, I can't make out what's what on the BSP mounting cord illustration.  I'll go with the various instructions provided in this thread and/or use my D1 as a reference to find an arrangement that works.

I probably won't be taking any more action on this until tomorrow, so will report results after I complete all of the wiring.
Ralph

Offline poplar1

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Re: WECo 201A Wiring Advice
« Reply #13 on: October 14, 2015, 09:24:04 PM »
Cliff, yes, that is the K terminal strapped to the RR.   The black lead from the ringer is on K and the red/brown(?) lead from the ringer capacitor is on RR.

The K has been struck out, since, as pointed out by unbeldi, there is no K terminal in a 634BC or 684BC. So, both screw terminals (that are strapped together) are now "RR."

Terminal strip (original configuration was a 534A):

         (E )                    (K)                     (B)               [marked but not equipped with terminals in 534A]
L1      GND       Y L2*         GN        R           C             [usual 6 terminals found in a 534A]

* "Y L2" was marked "L2 Y" on earlier black terminal strips. Also, GN was marked  "4 GN" and R was marked " 2 R."


In your 634BC conversion:

        --                       K RR                   BK
--      --           --            --
                                                  GND R        C YY
« Last Edit: October 14, 2015, 10:56:08 PM by poplar1 »
"C'est pas une restauration, c'est une rénovation."--François Martin.

Offline NorthernElectric

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Re: WECo 201A Wiring Advice
« Reply #14 on: October 14, 2015, 09:33:31 PM »
I'll go with the various instructions provided in this thread and/or use my D1 as a reference to find an arrangement that works.

If the D1 you are referring to is the one you recently posted about connecting to a 554C subset, you probably don't want to use it for a reference.  Your C1 mounting is functionally similar to your D1, but the 2 subsets are not.  Though I am not at all familiar with the 554C subset, as I understand it is a sidetone subset.  Your 634BC is an anti-sidetone subset and needs to be wired a bit differently.
Cliff