Author Topic: Canadian Ae 34  (Read 4834 times)

Offline Jack Ryan

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Re: Canadian Ae 34
« Reply #15 on: November 01, 2015, 06:04:37 PM »
Here are a couple of handset pics

That appears to be an IC type handset (receiver). There appears to be an IC in the phone and I don't remember ever seeing an AE 34 that used an electromagnetic receiver.

Jack

Offline rbouch

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Re: Canadian Ae 34
« Reply #16 on: November 01, 2015, 06:13:30 PM »
Well I have seen the electromagnetic receiver before in pictures of these phones, but can you excuse my lack of knowledge and tell me what an IC type handset is and what type of phone one would usually find them with?

Offline Jack Ryan

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Re: Canadian Ae 34
« Reply #17 on: November 01, 2015, 06:30:55 PM »
Well I have seen the electromagnetic receiver before in pictures of these phones, but can you excuse my lack of knowledge and tell me what an IC type handset is and what type of phone one would usually find them with?

The winding of the electromagnetic receiver used in the Type 38 style handset is tapped (it has a three wire connection) and is used to perform the function of an Induction Coil (IC) in addition to (1) forming a magnetic bias (there is no permanent magnet) and (2) driving the diaphragm.

The receiver incorporates the function of an anti-sidetone Induction Coil.

Does your phone have an induction coil? It looks like it does.

Jack


unbeldi

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Re: Canadian Ae 34
« Reply #18 on: November 01, 2015, 06:38:41 PM »
I would argue that both types of AE receivers are electromagnetic receivers, no matter whether they use a permanent magnet or not.

I could not make any view of the posts in the pictures.

Here is what to look for.   The picture was provided by stub,  here.
« Last Edit: November 01, 2015, 06:47:19 PM by unbeldi »

Offline rbouch

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Re: Canadian Ae 34
« Reply #19 on: November 01, 2015, 06:40:33 PM »
Well you guys are past me, but I assume that is an induction coil sitting underneath the ringer?

Offline Jack Ryan

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Re: Canadian Ae 34
« Reply #20 on: November 01, 2015, 06:45:43 PM »
I would argue that both types of AE receivers are electromagnetic receivers, no matter whether they use a permanent magnet or not.

I could not make any view of the posts in the pictures.

One could argue that but a lot of manufacturers used the term "electromagnetic" to describe what AE called "DC" receivers. Conventional receivers containing a permanent magnet were called "biased" receivers.

Jack

Offline Jack Ryan

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Re: Canadian Ae 34
« Reply #21 on: November 01, 2015, 06:47:48 PM »
Well you guys are past me, but I assume that is an induction coil sitting underneath the ringer?

That's what I had assumed. Pity there is no circuit diagram.

Jack

unbeldi

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Re: Canadian Ae 34
« Reply #22 on: November 01, 2015, 06:48:40 PM »
I would argue that both types of AE receivers are electromagnetic receivers, no matter whether they use a permanent magnet or not.

I could not make any view of the posts in the pictures.

One could argue that but a lot of manufacturers used the term "electromagnetic" to describe what AE called "DC" receivers. Conventional receivers containing a permanent magnet were called "biased" receivers.

Jack

yes, but that does not disqualify the technically correct term.

@ rbouch, I attached a picture to my post earlier, so you can compare.

Offline rbouch

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Re: Canadian Ae 34
« Reply #23 on: November 01, 2015, 06:54:16 PM »
Yes
Those posts are present in the receiver

Offline Jack Ryan

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Re: Canadian Ae 34
« Reply #24 on: November 01, 2015, 06:55:04 PM »
yes, but that does not disqualify the technically correct term.

Of course, you are correct. Life it easier though if, when you go shopping, you ask for an item using the name the seller or manufacturer uses.

The use of the word "biased" is totally confusing. Obviously it refers to a magnetic bias not a DC bias. It makes life interesting...

Jack

unbeldi

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Re: Canadian Ae 34
« Reply #25 on: November 01, 2015, 07:07:16 PM »
yes, but that does not disqualify the technically correct term.

Of course, you are correct. Life it easier though if, when you go shopping, you ask for an item using the name the seller or manufacturer uses.

The use of the word "biased" is totally confusing. Obviously it refers to a magnetic bias not a DC bias. It makes life interesting...

Jack

Actually, the term 'bias' refers to the mechanical state of the diaphragm, in rather analogous manner as in a biased ringer, namely that the diaphragm is constantly under tension, being permanently curved toward the magnet.  This is in contrast to the "unbiased" types which must not have DC flowing through the receiver where the diaphragm is free of tension when no speech is converted.
Of course you are correct that this tension comes from the magnetism.

The "rest state", i.e. when no speech is converted has very characteristics implication to the performance of the unit.
« Last Edit: November 01, 2015, 07:09:01 PM by unbeldi »

Offline rbouch

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Re: Canadian Ae 34
« Reply #26 on: November 01, 2015, 07:13:06 PM »
 so what is the point of this handset being on this phone?

Is it a handset that shouldn't be paired with this phone?

I'll say this-the whole thing looks like it came out of box yesterday to me......

unbeldi

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Re: Canadian Ae 34
« Reply #27 on: November 01, 2015, 07:23:00 PM »
so what is the point of this handset being on this phone?

Is it a handset that shouldn't be paired with this phone?

I'll say this-the whole thing looks like it came out of box yesterday to me......

A phone with an induction coil handset does not need an induction coil in the base. The induction coil that you do have, is below the tilted-up end of the ringer.
Since the cords are nice and reproductions, it may mean someone made this phone from parts that originally did not belong together.  After all, some parts may not be easily obtained to restore a phone to complete authenticity.   I suppose an induction coil handset might be wired to work with a separate induction coil, but I have not examined the electrical foundation of that.  Perhaps, the fact there is no diagram inside the unit, is another indication that it is not quite a correct restoration, technically.

I think you still have a nice set, worthy to be displayed and be proud of.
« Last Edit: November 01, 2015, 07:25:46 PM by unbeldi »

Offline Jack Ryan

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Re: Canadian Ae 34
« Reply #28 on: November 01, 2015, 07:23:31 PM »
Actually, the term 'bias' refers to the mechanical state of the diaphragm, in rather analogous manner as in a biased ringer, namely that the diaphragm is constantly under tension, being permanently curved toward the magnet.  This is in contrast to the "unbiased" types which must not have DC flowing through the receiver where the diaphragm is free of tension when no speech is converted.

In some jurisdictions an unbiased receiver has no magnetic bias (from a permanent magnet) and requires a DC current.

Anyway, I'll try to use AE terminology for this discussion. The question is whether this AE 34 should have a handset with a DC receiver.

Regards
Jack

Offline Jack Ryan

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Re: Canadian Ae 34
« Reply #29 on: November 01, 2015, 07:29:02 PM »
A phone with an induction coil handset does not need an induction coil in the base. The induction coil that you do have, is below the tilted-up end of the ringer.
Since the cords are nice and reproductions, it may mean someone made this phone from parts that originally did not belong together.  After all, some parts may not be easily obtained to restore a phone to complete authenticity.   I suppose an induction coil handset might be wired to work with a separate induction coil, but I have not examined the electrical foundation of that.  Perhaps, the fact there is no diagram inside the unit, is another indication that it is not quite a correct restoration, technically.

I think you still have a nice set, worthy to be displayed and be proud of.

I agree with both sentiments.

Jack