Author Topic: Interesting 410? with 500 box on eBay  (Read 3412 times)

Offline TelePlay

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Interesting 410? with 500 box on eBay
« on: November 08, 2015, 10:18:51 AM »
Just listed is this "F1" phone which seems to be a nice 410 or 411 in what the seller says is the original box. Looks like a nice phone with cloth cords in need of work and a number card holder. The bottom of the phone seems to indicate a 2R-11-50 refurb date.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/281850834452

The box is the interesting part. Seems the 41? was replaced by a 6/49 black 500 D. The box was used to send the 41? back to a refurb house where a 302G3F sticker was pasted over the 500 labeling with a FEB 24 195? date stamp, maybe 1951 if it was refurbed in November 1950. I could be reading the dates wrong but unlike "original" boxes being included in auctions in the past, this box also seems to have been recycled for used with the 41?. Doesn't really add to the phone other than the historical information above which I hope I got right, or close to right.

Anyone see anything else here?
            John . . .

              

unbeldi

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Re: Interesting 410? with 500 box on eBay
« Reply #1 on: November 08, 2015, 11:05:22 AM »
Hmm,  I do not think this is a 400-series set.   I think it is simply a 305 with a ringer cutoff switch.

A 410 or such should have a different mounting cord.

Offline TelePlay

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Re: Interesting 410? with 500 box on eBay
« Reply #2 on: November 08, 2015, 11:11:39 AM »
Hmm,  I do not think this is a 400-series set.   I think it is simply a 305 with a ringer cutoff switch.

A 410 or such should have a different mounting cord.

I noticed the mounting cord and thought of that also but this set would then be missing the on/off plate around the switch seen on most 305's. Maybe the on/off switch was added as part of the refurb and they just skipped the plate as too much work. The seller also did not post a picture of the plungers to if there is an exclusion switch there, we can't see it. It's a bit high priced for me to find out. I found the box more interesting in that someone has/had an early 500.
            John . . .

              

Offline poplar1

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Re: Interesting 410? with 500 box on eBay
« Reply #3 on: November 08, 2015, 11:57:55 AM »
4-conductor mtg. Cord is correct for basic 410 without signaling. 305 normally has a D2- or D3- cord.

Box was originally stamped for 500D-3. That D model did not yet exist in 11-50. Box was reused by WE repair shop for a remanufactured 302G-3. No evidence that either the factory or the shop ever used the box for a 410 , 5302, or 305.
« Last Edit: November 08, 2015, 12:22:52 PM by poplar1 »
"C'est pas une restauration, c'est une rénovation."--François Martin.

unbeldi

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Re: Interesting 410? with 500 box on eBay
« Reply #4 on: November 08, 2015, 12:07:24 PM »
Three-conductor mounting cord.

Offline Babybearjs

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Re: Interesting 410? with 500 box on eBay
« Reply #5 on: November 09, 2015, 02:50:40 AM »
silly guys.... all it is is a W.E. 410 in a remarked box, wired to be a 302. a 305 would have the On/Off badge riveted to it and this one does not, nor does it show signs of ever having one.... the ultimate test, buy it and find out for your self!
John

unbeldi

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Re: Interesting 410? with 500 box on eBay
« Reply #6 on: November 09, 2015, 09:40:23 AM »
silly guys.... all it is is a W.E. 410 in a remarked box, wired to be a 302. a 305 would have the On/Off badge riveted to it and this one does not, nor does it show signs of ever having one.... the ultimate test, buy it and find out for your self!

Well, it equally could have been a modified 302, with switch added and the hole in the housing drilled out. Some 302 shells already have the switch hole molded inside.

Offline Babybearjs

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Re: Interesting 410? with 500 box on eBay
« Reply #7 on: November 09, 2015, 06:19:49 PM »
that's true, but one will only know the truth once the case is opened.....
John

Offline poplar1

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Re: Interesting 410? with 500 box on eBay
« Reply #8 on: November 10, 2015, 07:35:51 AM »
Seller provided additional pictures. It's neither a 410 nor a 305. Appears to be a 304 modified for ringer cut-off. I don't see this one in the BSP. Some part of the ringer has to remain connected in order for the Central Office to bill the Tip Party for message rate or toll calls.
http://www.telephonecollectors.info/index.php/browse/bc-switching-library/doc_details/3302-c32-502-i8-oct55-tel-sets-302-303-304-305-306-307-309-329-types-tl
"C'est pas une restauration, c'est une rénovation."--François Martin.

Offline andre_janew

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Re: Interesting 410? with 500 box on eBay
« Reply #9 on: November 10, 2015, 06:11:30 PM »
If it is a modified 304, then the box may not be the one it came in.  If it was, then the box was mislabeled. 

Offline Babybearjs

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Re: Interesting 410? with 500 box on eBay
« Reply #10 on: November 10, 2015, 11:22:23 PM »
WOW.... now that we know what it is, who's going to get it??
John

Offline poplar1

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Re: Interesting 410? with 500 box on eBay
« Reply #11 on: November 10, 2015, 11:56:12 PM »
Seller funished another picture, showing "H3", which is the tel. set mounting code for a 304.

Because the ringer, housing, induction coil, baseplate and transmitter dates are all 1949, it's possible that this phone was modified in 1950 (refurb date on bottom), but unlikely that it was ever shipped in this box. The box is 1952 or later box, and is labeled for a 302.
"C'est pas une restauration, c'est une rénovation."--François Martin.

unbeldi

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Re: Interesting 410? with 500 box on eBay
« Reply #12 on: November 11, 2015, 08:43:22 AM »
In the vast majority of cases, when a telephone is found as having its original box, it isn't the original box. When a technician installed a new set, per BSP instructions they were not to simply throw the old set onto the truck, but to protect it in a box.  Nothing is more obvious to do than to put the old set into the box of the new set right inside the premise where the installation took place. How that translates into us finding telephones in boxes of course may be totally unrelated, but my point is that essentially the only telephones we find in original boxes are NOS sets, or uninstalled freshly refurbished stock, often with the green stamps on the boxes.

This set does have some indications of being an uninstalled set, a nice handset cord, and the mounting cord ends are nice and straight.  As rubber insulation hardens over time it shows when the ends were wound around a connecting block or bunched up inside an enclosure. They wouldn't be this straight typically.

What is more interesting to me, is whether a 304 set was chosen for this conversion because the 304 housing might always have the key position molded into the housing or not.  Do all H3 housings have the feature?  I don't have enough black 304 sets, or even enough observations recorded, to make a statement about it, with any kind of certainty.  The only statement I can make is that at most 10% of H1 housings seems to have the key hole feature, and 100% of the colored plastic H mountings I have had, indeed had this element.

Any other information available w/r/t the key hole feature on H1, H3, etc mountings?
« Last Edit: November 11, 2015, 11:09:02 AM by unbeldi »

Offline Jim Stettler

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Re: Interesting 410? with 500 box on eBay
« Reply #13 on: November 11, 2015, 12:29:20 PM »
Not all of the 302 housings have the key position molded into them. I know some of  the early clear  housings did not have them. I don't know if they were added  to all the later housings or just to the later molds.
JMO,
Jim

Ray K. stated he made his  clear 302 housings  without them to help indicate they were repro housing. I did point out to him that someof the early sets were made the same way. So if your clear 302 doesn't have the key position it is probably  early or a Ray K repro.
« Last Edit: November 11, 2015, 12:33:10 PM by Jim S. »
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unbeldi

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Re: Interesting 410? with 500 box on eBay
« Reply #14 on: November 11, 2015, 03:34:31 PM »
Not all of the 302 housings have the key position molded into them. I know some of  the early clear  housings did not have them. I don't know if they were added  to all the later housings or just to the later molds.
JMO,
Jim

Ray K. stated he made his  clear 302 housings  without them to help indicate they were repro housing. I did point out to him that someof the early sets were made the same way. So if your clear 302 doesn't have the key position it is probably  early or a Ray K repro.

Some clear 302 housings?
My clear 302?  How many do you have?
Who has any of them?   As far as I have heard, clear 302 housings were only made for an exhibit in the late 30s (some world fair?), even before the plastic 302s were introduced in 1940/1.  Since then, Ray is probably the only one to make them, not?

From an old posting:

Does it have it or not?
« Last Edit: November 11, 2015, 03:44:46 PM by unbeldi »