Author Topic: BSP: 502-525-400  (Read 1457 times)

Offline Babybearjs

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BSP: 502-525-400
« on: January 21, 2016, 12:53:52 AM »
does anyone know if there is a newer copy of this BSP? the only copy I could find was dated 1964. Was this reissued later on, Or dropped. The TCI Library only has this copy... where else could I look?
John

Offline G-Man

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Re: BSP: 502-525-400
« Reply #1 on: January 21, 2016, 07:45:48 AM »
 An extremely poor job of scanning, but what specific model and what type of information are you looking for? Most likely there is another document that will provide it for you.

Offline Fabius

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Re: BSP: 502-525-400
« Reply #2 on: January 21, 2016, 12:25:35 PM »
Would the AT&T archives have BSP info?

AT&T Archives and History Center
4949 Von Scheele
San Antonio, Texas 78229

Contacts:  William D. Caughlin, CA
Telephone:  1-210-697-1763
Fax:  1-210-697-1755
E-mail:  william.d.caughlin@att.com

AT&T Archives and History Center
5 Reinman Road
Warren, New Jersey 07059
George Kupczak
Telephone: 1-908-546-5247
Fax: 1-908-546-5233
E-Mail: george.kupczak@att.com

Type of Business:  Communications and Entertainment
Hours of Service:  By appointment

Access:  Although in separate locations, the two repositories are unified operationally and exist to serve company activities.  Requests from outside researchers, however, are handled on a case-by-case basis.

The San Antonio collections are centered on the holding companies — SBC Communications Inc., Pacific Telesis Group, Southern New England Telecommunications Corp., Ameritech Corp., BellSouth Corp., AT&T Mobility LLC (formerly Cingular) — and their predecessors and subsidiaries, which primarily trace the evolution of local landline and wireless phone service in 22 states (1878-present).

The Warren holdings comprise records of AT&T Corp. and its predecessors, as well as former subsidiary companies, including Western Electric Company, Inc. and Bell Telephone Laboratories, Inc.  These materials mainly illustrate technological innovations in the telecom industry, such as long-distance voice and data services, and their impact on American society (1869-present).
Tom Vaughn
La Porte, Indiana
ATCA Past President
ATCA #765
C*NET 1+ 821-9905

Offline G-Man

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Re: BSP: 502-525-400
« Reply #3 on: January 21, 2016, 03:53:54 PM »
 Yes, especially since SBC* (AT&T’s real name), looted the largest collection of Bell System documentation from the Telephone Pioneers Museum in San Francisco when they created the facility in San Antonio!  Fortunately Bill Coughlin is a real nice guy and one can make an appointment to view the collection.
 
The real AT&T collection located in New Jersey is much harder to gain access to since it contains sensitive AT&T corporate records.
 
If a researcher wants to view a document, he would have to specify it by a catalogue item that tells the curator which part of the massive warehouse it is located, the aisle, and pallet number, etc. It is then retrieved and brought to archive’s research room.
 
*SBC= Southwestern Bell Communications

Offline Babybearjs

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Re: BSP: 502-525-400
« Reply #4 on: January 21, 2016, 04:29:40 PM »
Wow, got someone talking.... I dispute the AT&T/SBC claim.... wasn't AT&T already established before SBC was created? after all... SBC was a subsidiary of the bell system.... AT&T was only the Long Distance Carrier for the bell system.... Southwestern Bell only served a few states.... After all, the phone companies started on the East Coast and spread west....I don't remember bell Living in S.F......
John

Offline G-Man

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Re: BSP: 502-525-400
« Reply #5 on: January 21, 2016, 05:11:31 PM »
Wow, got someone talking.... I dispute the AT&T/SBC claim.... wasn't AT&T already established before SBC was created? after all... SBC was a subsidiary of the bell system.... AT&T was only the Long Distance Carrier for the bell system.... Southwestern Bell only served a few states.... After all, the phone companies started on the East Coast and spread west....I don't remember bell Living in S.F......

I won't dwell on the other inaccuracies presented here, rather simply address the main (incorrect) assertion with this article from CNN....

Baby Bell buying Ma Bell
SBC to buy former parent AT&T despite drop in long-distance business; analysts question $16B deal.

January 31, 2005: 11:13 AM EST

Alexander Graham Bell founded AT&T in 1877.

NEW YORK (CNN/Money) - After 128 years as an independent company, since just after the invention of the telephone that's the centerpiece of its business, AT&T will be absorbed into its offspring SBC Communications in a stock-and-cash deal valued at $16 billion.

SBC also will be assuming about $6 billion in AT&T's net debt, bringing the total value of the deal to $22 billion.

SBC, announcing the deal Monday, said it could find value in AT&T even with the decline in its traditional long distance business. Shares of AT&T fell about 5.6 percent in early trading Monday morning while shares of SBC were down slightly.

The deal marks the end of several eras, one that started with company founder Alexander Graham Bell, and another that began when a federal judge split the original company into eight separate entities in 1984.

In the more than 20 years of telephone deregulation that followed, the offspring such as SBC moved into dominant positions in the growth areas of telecommunications, including wireless and Internet connections.

AT&T tried to change, as it entered fields such as cable television and wireless phone service itself. But its efforts generally met with business disappointment, and it soon left both those fields. SBC is already in the process of integrating the former AT&T Wireless unit it bought last year.
Still, AT&T chairman and CEO David Dorman said during a conference call with analysts Monday morning that he did not view the acquisition as an end to AT&T. "We don't view it that way and nothing could be further from the truth," he said.

SBC chairman and CEO Edward E. Whitacre Jr. added during the call that SBC was still contemplating whether or not it would continue to use the AT&T brand name once the deal was completed. "Obviously AT&T is a great name, a strong worldwide brand, and that will factor into our decision," Whitacre said.

Offline Jim S.

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Re: BSP: 502-525-400
« Reply #6 on: January 21, 2016, 06:21:01 PM »
Wow, got someone talking.... I dispute the AT&T/SBC claim.... wasn't AT&T already established before SBC was created? after all... SBC was a subsidiary of the bell system.... AT&T was only the Long Distance Carrier for the bell system.... Southwestern Bell only served a few states.... After all, the phone companies started on the East Coast and spread west....I don't remember bell Living in S.F......

Per "THE EARLY CORPORATE DEVELOPEMENT OF THE TELEPHONE" by AT&T
The bell system structure was originally:

The Bell System started as the "Bell patent Association" Fall 1874
on February 17,1879 the name became "The National Bell Telephone Company"
They reorganized March 20, 1880 as "The American Bell Telephone Company" as they started interconnecting the central offices  (long lines), they reorganized again on February 28, 1885,  and created AT&T as the parent company.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

There are lots of publications that show how everything played out. Western electric was created as a result of the patent infringement lawsuits. Instead of fighting it out in the courts, American Bell bought interest in the competing companies (cash and stock swaps),awarded them contacts to produce telephones, the contracts were used to secure financing for expansion of manufacturing . American Bell then created western electric from Graybar electric and the newly acquired  companies. The acquired facilities became the main branches of Western Electric, located in New York, Chicago, and Indianapolis.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I have assembled a small library of books/pamphlets/ and American Bell corporate reports that outline this info.


Jim S.
 Some say the old SBC is basically the "new" at&t
There is an old  late night "spoof that shows the conversion of AT&T to at&t (SBC). It is funny and accurate, I couldn't find it on a quick search of youtube tho.
« Last Edit: January 21, 2016, 06:51:20 PM by Jim S. »
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Offline Jim S.

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Re: BSP: 502-525-400
« Reply #7 on: January 21, 2016, 07:05:44 PM »
Wow, got someone talking.... I dispute the AT&T/SBC claim.... wasn't AT&T already established before SBC was created? after all... SBC was a subsidiary of the bell system.... AT&T was only the Long Distance Carrier for the bell system.... Southwestern Bell only served a few states.... After all, the phone companies started on the East Coast and spread west....I don't remember bell Living in S.F......

I won't dwell on the other inaccuracies presented here, rather simply address the main (incorrect) assertion with this article from CNN....

Baby Bell buying Ma Bell
SBC to buy former parent AT&T despite drop in long-distance business; analysts question $16B deal.

January 31, 2005: 11:13 AM EST

Alexander Graham Bell founded AT&T in 1877.

NEW YORK (CNN/Money) - After 128 years as an independent company, since just after the invention of the telephone that's the centerpiece of its business, AT&T will be absorbed into its offspring SBC Communications in a stock-and-cash deal valued at $16 billion.

SBC also will be assuming about $6 billion in AT&T's net debt, bringing the total value of the deal to $22 billion.

SBC, announcing the deal Monday, said it could find value in AT&T even with the decline in its traditional long distance business. Shares of AT&T fell about 5.6 percent in early trading Monday morning while shares of SBC were down slightly.

The deal marks the end of several eras, one that started with company founder Alexander Graham Bell, and another that began when a federal judge split the original company into eight separate entities in 1984.

In the more than 20 years of telephone deregulation that followed, the offspring such as SBC moved into dominant positions in the growth areas of telecommunications, including wireless and Internet connections.

AT&T tried to change, as it entered fields such as cable television and wireless phone service itself. But its efforts generally met with business disappointment, and it soon left both those fields. SBC is already in the process of integrating the former AT&T Wireless unit it bought last year.
Still, AT&T chairman and CEO David Dorman said during a conference call with analysts Monday morning that he did not view the acquisition as an end to AT&T. "We don't view it that way and nothing could be further from the truth," he said.

SBC chairman and CEO Edward E. Whitacre Jr. added during the call that SBC was still contemplating whether or not it would continue to use the AT&T brand name once the deal was completed. "Obviously AT&T is a great name, a strong worldwide brand, and that will factor into our decision," Whitacre said.


AT&T was broken up @ midnight on 12/31/1983. @ that time it became a long distance company that was just another baby bell. SBC was a baby bell that eventually bought AT&T and changed the name and  logo to at&t.

AT&T stood for American Telephone and Telegraph. The new at&t just is a corporate emblem. The old AT&T had the Death Star logo, the new at&t has a "reversed" Death Star" logo.

AT&T and at&t are  really 2 different  companies.

JMO,
Jim S.
« Last Edit: January 21, 2016, 07:15:55 PM by Jim S. »
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Offline Babybearjs

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Re: BSP: 502-525-400
« Reply #8 on: January 22, 2016, 04:21:27 AM »
Crazy, Just Crazy.... its like the bell system bought itself. I hated the breakup from the beginning because the commitment from the company went in the trash.... anyway, I did miss the fact the SBC bought AT&T. But, getting back to the main reason for this thread, I want to know if the BSP had been updated, or dropped... this was the only copy in the library and it was dated 1962, yet the phones were updated and continue to be made way past that time, so I would think there would be some sort of addendum noting the change. (was 502-525-400 reissued in another section and Relisted in the 512 category?) was it merged in to the KSSM? that's the main question here....
John

Offline G-Man

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Re: BSP: 502-525-400
« Reply #9 on: January 22, 2016, 09:17:01 AM »
 A few minor corrections…
 
 AT&T, once the largest corporation in the world, was never “just a long-distance company.” Even after the Divestiture, it was still a huge company with a number of other large divisions that earned considerable revenue, though long-distance was still a substantial money-maker for it.
 
 The Bell System started as the "Bell patent Association" Fall 1874”
The telephone was invented in 1876, so the company did not exist in 1874.
 
American Bell did not create Western Electric since WECo was in existence prior to the invention of the telephone and American Bell did not exist as that time. Plus, WECo was not created from Graybar Electric since it was Western Electric that created Graybar many decades later. Also, Graybar did not “warehouse” products for Western Electric, only what they stocked for sale to other companies.
 
Here is an excerpt from another AT&T publication, “The Bell System.”
 
Shortly after the sale of the foreign business [to ITT in 1925], Western [Electric] formed the Graybar Electric Company and turned over to this company its general electrical supply business. In 1928, an arrangement was made whereby the employees of Graybar could immediately acquire ownership of the voting stock of the company and later the entire capital interest of the business by redemption of the preferred stock, out of the earnings of the business. This process was nearly completed by the end of 1940.
 
Western Electric was not created out of patent litigation. It was purchased after the dispute between Western Union and Bell was settled.  This is described by the AT&T publication, “Western Electric and the Bell System”:
 
The popularity of the telephone had grown to such an extent that by the end of 1881 there were 70,000 telephones in service. On January 12 of that year, The Inter State Telephone Company opened the first commercially successful long distance line spanning the 45 miles between Providence and Boston. Almost every month new exchanges were opening and much experimentation was being was being carried on concerning long distance transmission. The quality of service varied markedly, however, and there was no attempt at standardization by the various telephone companies that common standards and a common purpose shared by the people who made telephone equipment and those who operated it would prove essential to the orderly development of the telephone.  Since Western Electric had pioneered much electrical equipment and telephone apparatus - the Scribner switchboard, for example - the company was clearly well qualified to manufacture Bell Telephone equipment. Moreover it has a reputation for high quality products built to offer reliable, long- lived service.
 
WESTERN ELECTRIC ENTERS THE BELL SYSTEM
      Thus early in 1881, General Stager, Western Electric president, and Theodore N. Vail, at that time general manager of the American  Bell Telephone Company, explored the possibility of Western Electricbecoming the manufacturing unit of the Bell System. As a result, the Bell company acquired an interest in Western Electric Manufacturing  Company.     Further capital expansion was required and as a result, in late November,  1881  the company was reorganized as the Western Electric Company of Illinois with a capitalization of $1,000,000 in which theAmerican Bell Company had a major interest. The first manufacturing contract between the parent organization and Western Electric was signed on February 6, 1882.     Western Electric's entry into the Bell System was the capstone to General Stager's career. In January, 1885 failing health made it necessary for him to resign the presidency of the company. In March, amonth before his 60th birthday, he died. William S. Smoot, of the  Remington Arms Company, succeeded Stager as president but died within a year, to be succeeded by Enos M. Barton. At his accession, the firm he had helped to found 17 years before had become one of the largest units in the Bell System.
« Last Edit: January 22, 2016, 09:25:54 AM by G-Man »

Offline poplar1

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Re: BSP: 502-525-400
« Reply #10 on: January 22, 2016, 09:19:15 AM »
502-525-400 was formerly C71.347.00 (issue 1, May,1961), which replaced C71.347, Issue 3.

C71.347.00 is available online:

elter.com/docs/BSP/C/C71.347.00_I1.pdf
« Last Edit: January 22, 2016, 09:24:22 AM by poplar1 »
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