Author Topic: Wire / Cable color codes: 1960's to now.....  (Read 2792 times)

Offline Babybearjs

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Wire / Cable color codes: 1960's to now.....
« on: January 22, 2016, 12:48:21 PM »
I don't remember where I talked about this last, but.... I restored a 564HD last night and it had a older D42 cord on it that had the old tri-colored wire. got it all put back together and then looked at my paperwork....discovering I had wires in the wrong places. having to open up the phone again, I put on my magnifying glasses and read the fine print on the schematic.... anyway, my main question is, when did AT&T/the bell system...change the color codes.... I was reading where all 564 phones that were returned to the DC had the bells changed from the C4 to the H1 so 2 buzzers could be added instead of 1.... and that the line cords went from a D40 to a D42 cord. my unit has a 589 keyset inside it and that works fine.... once they ran out of them, they went over to the 636 key and the sets could be 564's OR 565's.... because I think they just all went to the D50 line cord to make things more uniform. ( I may be wrong though). so when did the bell system change its color codes?  Oh, BTW.....the ITT TIMM manual from '77 is the only document that shows the older wiring.... along with the schematic for the old 588-89 keysets... unless there is a BSP that shows it too hiding somewhere in the library.
« Last Edit: January 23, 2016, 12:36:57 PM by AE_Collector »
John

Offline poplar1

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Re: color codes: 1960's to now.....
« Reply #1 on: January 22, 2016, 01:52:55 PM »
The January, 1964 BSP you cited -- 502-525-400 Issue 3 -- shows mounting cords with the old color codes (R, G, Y, BK, BL, W, BR-R, BR-GN, etc.)....However,  the WE 564s had at that time D30 or D34 cords, not D50.

There is mention in 502-503-103, issue 1, of replacing the D30D cord on a 2564 with a D50, but only for use with1A key.This is probably to furnish the B (balance) leads.

I'm not certain that 564s and 565s changed to the new color code at the same time. 502-525-404 issue 2, 4/61 shows plug-ended 564 HDR sets with D30B cords with the old color code. 502:525-405 issue 3, 3/62 shows 565 HDR sets with D50C cords with the new color code. 502-525-426 i3, 6/64 shows 1565 HK with  new color code.


« Last Edit: January 22, 2016, 03:04:10 PM by poplar1 »
"C'est pas une restauration, c'est une rénovation."--François Martin.

Offline Babybearjs

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Re: color codes: 1960's to now.....
« Reply #2 on: January 23, 2016, 02:20:09 AM »
so you think the color code was changed in the 60"s?  do you know when the station wire was updated? I remember as a child the PT&T prewired our home and use unsheathed 25 pair solid wire.... with the current color code... so it could have been in the mid 60's because the house was built in '66.  interesting, huh?
John

Offline Phonesrfun

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Re: Wire / Cable color codes: 1960's to now.....
« Reply #3 on: January 28, 2016, 12:43:06 AM »
I remember as a child the PT&T prewired our home and use unsheathed 25 pair solid wire....

25-pair cable in a residence? Sounds like overkill.  Did your parents plan on having a key set?
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Offline G-Man

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Re: Wire / Cable color codes: 1960's to now.....
« Reply #4 on: January 28, 2016, 02:37:26 AM »
I remember as a child the PT&T prewired our home and use unsheathed 25 pair solid wire....

25-pair cable in a residence? Sounds like overkill.  Did your parents plan on having a key set?
Bill, as usual you are correct; to my knowledge, unsheathed 25-pair I.W. cable was never used by Pacific Telephone, especially for pre-wiring a residence unless a keysystem or pbx were going to be installed. Also, I doubt that 25-pair, unsheathed I.W. was ever used by any of the other Bells.
 
Instead, unsheathed 6-pair cables were prevalent along with other low-pair counts being used through different decades. Aside from the waste factor aspect, initial cost was another consideration along with state taxes which are imposed on cables consisting of 25-pairs or more. These are the reasons individual, low-pair count, drop-cables were often run to the buildings of customers that used  large numbers of telephone lines.
 
Generally it took an ok from outside plant engineering for an installer to receive permission to run large-count drop cables.
 
« Last Edit: January 28, 2016, 06:52:22 AM by G-Man »

Offline rdelius

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Re: Wire / Cable color codes: 1960's to now.....
« Reply #5 on: January 28, 2016, 01:41:38 PM »
I suspect the color code changed with the Amp connectors and 1A2 systems from the 1A1.

Offline Babybearjs

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Re: Wire / Cable color codes: 1960's to now.....
« Reply #6 on: January 29, 2016, 07:14:37 PM »
to answer the question about the IW in my parents house, no they did not ever have a key system, all I remember is that when you opened up the jack in the wall, you had a mess of wires. I suspect that because this was during a building boom in California, the technician that wired the houses used the same wire they were using in apartment complexes. back in the 1960's-70's the Santa Clara Valley was changing from Orchards to suburbs.... so I am coming to the conclusion that P.T.& T had its hands full and was using anything that was available to them at the time. I remember seeing a lot of unsheathed cable being used in the walls of the new homes... I thought it was different... but, what did I know.....  I was just a kid. anyway the tech sure did plan for the future.... and I'm wondering if the phone companies were pushing the home interphone system back then.... that would explain all the wiring....
John

Online Jim S.

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Re: Wire / Cable color codes: 1960's to now.....
« Reply #7 on: January 29, 2016, 07:59:22 PM »
I have seen a couple of houses in Mountain Bell Territory that used un-jacketed 8-12 pair. Both homes were the model home/sales office for their neighborhoods. I think it was done for multiple single lines. Other houses in the same neighbor hoods were pre-wired with quad. these house were built in the late 50's early 60's.
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Offline Babybearjs

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Re: Wire / Cable color codes: 1960's to now.....
« Reply #8 on: January 29, 2016, 10:03:12 PM »
does anyone know anything about the home interphone system, and how it was promoted? did the bell system offer it to all their customers? or was it exclusive?
John

Offline G-Man

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Re: Wire / Cable color codes: 1960's to now.....
« Reply #9 on: January 30, 2016, 11:55:18 PM »
to answer the question about the IW in my parents house, no they did not ever have a key system, all I remember is that when you opened up the jack in the wall, you had a mess of wires. I suspect that because this was during a building boom in California, the technician that wired the houses used the same wire they were using in apartment complexes. back in the 1960's-70's the Santa Clara Valley was changing from Orchards to suburbs.... so I am coming to the conclusion that P.T.& T had its hands full and was using anything that was available to them at the time. I remember seeing a lot of unsheathed cable being used in the walls of the new homes... I thought it was different... but, what did I know.....  I was just a kid. anyway the tech sure did plan for the future.... and I'm wondering if the phone companies were pushing the home interphone system back then.... that would explain all the wiring....


While it really doesn’t matter and even though I don’t want to be too “nitpicky,” I would like to set the record straight, least others who come across this thread will receive the wrong idea about telephone company prewire.

Since unsheathed 25-pair i.w. cable most likely was never manufactured and Pacific Telephone certainly never stocked it, then it is reasonable to conclude that your parent’s home was not prewired with it unless standard 25-pair was used for the installation of a special service such as the previously mentioned keysystem.  Also, remember that the California Public Utilities Commission also regulated the telcos by means of tariffs and would never allow them to waste large amounts of money on cable with un-needed, oversized pair-counts.
 
Back in the day, as young tech who was involved in prewiring, I do have at least a modicum of knowledge about the subject.
Common unsheathed cable typically consisted of 6 to 8-pairs; that’s 12 to 16 individual wires in each cable.
 
To a young kid looking at a “mess of wires,” it probably did look like a gazillion wires poking out of the wall. 
« Last Edit: January 31, 2016, 12:00:05 AM by G-Man »

Offline Babybearjs

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Re: Wire / Cable color codes: 1960's to now.....
« Reply #10 on: January 31, 2016, 06:54:49 PM »
that is true.... then it could have been 12 pair... but it was too long ago.... all I know is it wasn't 2 pair.  so what did they use in apartment buildings?
« Last Edit: January 31, 2016, 06:56:43 PM by Babybearjs »
John