Author Topic: Need help with Panasonic 616/308 proprietary phone  (Read 8031 times)

Offline cloyd

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Re: Need help with Panasonic 616/308 proprietary phone
« Reply #30 on: February 04, 2016, 06:49:08 PM »
We know that the third ext. port is dead. And that your 302 won't function on the system.
However, we still don't know if it's a bad KX-T7030 phone, or a bad KX-T30810 key system.

What else can I do to determine whether it is the 308 (Easa-phone system) or the proprietary telephone (KX-T7030) that is causing problems?  If I bring my 7030 phone with me to school and plug it in where my Cisco IP Phone 7911 is plugged in, should it work?

Tina
-- I am always doing what I cannot do yet, in order to learn how to do it. - Van Gogh -- 1885

unbeldi

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Re: Need help with Panasonic 616/308 proprietary phone
« Reply #31 on: February 04, 2016, 06:56:07 PM »
We know that the third ext. port is dead. And that your 302 won't function on the system.
However, we still don't know if it's a bad KX-T7030 phone, or a bad KX-T30810 key system.

What else can I do to determine whether it is the 308 (Easa-phone system) or the proprietary telephone (KX-T7030) that is causing problems?  If I bring my 7030 phone with me to school and plug it in where my Cisco IP Phone 7911 is plugged in, should it work?

Tina

Your Cisco 7911 is a VoIP set that uses Ethernet for communication to a Cisco call manager system. Under no circumstances should you even try and the connectors are not even compatible. Ethernet uses an 8P8C connector.

Have you verified audio operation just by plugging it into an old fashioned telephone line?  That's the first baseline test for about 1/2 of the internal circuitry.

To test the rest, a functioning PBX is needed.


Offline cloyd

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Re: Need help with Panasonic 616/308 proprietary phone
« Reply #32 on: February 05, 2016, 02:29:41 PM »


Have you verified audio operation just by plugging it into an old fashioned telephone line?  That's the first baseline test for about 1/2 of the internal circuitry.

To test the rest, a functioning PBX is needed.
[/quote]

By "old fashioned" do you mean a land line?  Is the "audio operation" a dial tone or something more or something else?


Tina
-- I am always doing what I cannot do yet, in order to learn how to do it. - Van Gogh -- 1885

unbeldi

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Re: Need help with Panasonic 616/308 proprietary phone
« Reply #33 on: February 05, 2016, 02:37:23 PM »

By "old fashioned" do you mean a land line?  Is the "audio operation" a dial tone or something more or something else?


Tina

Yes, a landline would be ok, or any standard telephony service with an RJ11 jack, your cableTV modem telephone jack, or other voip ATA.   When plugged into any of these, the 7030 should work fine for placing a call.  When picking up the handset you hear dial tone, and you can dial a number and converse with someone.  Everything that is needed inside the phone for this purpose is powered from the center two pins, just like for any other telephone.    The outer two pins on the connector serve the digital aspects of the set for data and power, to run the display, to run the feature and line buttons, etc.  None of these will work when connected to a telephone line.

If that doesn't work, then there is probably little hope that it will work with the Panasonic PBX.
« Last Edit: February 05, 2016, 02:45:47 PM by unbeldi »

unbeldi

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Re: Need help with Panasonic 616/308 proprietary phone
« Reply #34 on: February 05, 2016, 02:57:19 PM »
This is probably frustrating to you without electronics experience and test equipment, for which no one can blame you, really.  So it requires some tenacity to work through these issues...  Old electronics always brings with it the risk of failing or not working, whether it is an old phone or an old PBX.  These boxes are long past their expected lifetime, we can agree, despite of being built still before the modern era of throw-away-buy-new electronics, that appears to be designed often to only last long enough until the marketing department decides they need a new model number anyways.

Anyhow, perhaps you might want to look out for a local electronics hobbyist that can help hands-on with these difficulties and troubleshooting.

unbeldi

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Re: Need help with Panasonic 616/308 proprietary phone
« Reply #35 on: February 05, 2016, 02:59:17 PM »
Was the KX-T7030 advertised on eBay as working properly?

Offline cloyd

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Re: Need help with Panasonic 616/308 proprietary phone
« Reply #36 on: February 05, 2016, 06:45:56 PM »

By "old fashioned" do you mean a land line?  Is the "audio operation" a dial tone or something more or something else?


Tina

Yes, a landline would be ok, or any standard telephony service with an RJ11 jack, your cableTV modem telephone jack, or other voip ATA.   When plugged into any of these, the 7030 should work fine for placing a call.  When picking up the handset you hear dial tone, and you can dial a number and converse with someone.  Everything that is needed inside the phone for this purpose is powered from the center two pins, just like for any other telephone.    The outer two pins on the connector serve the digital aspects of the set for data and power, to run the display, to run the feature and line buttons, etc.  None of these will work when connected to a telephone line.

If that doesn't work, then there is probably little hope that it will work with the Panasonic PBX.

When I plug the phone directly into the wall jack, I still get no signs of life.  I think I will ask for a refund and get another phone off ebay.  Or not.  If it will work without going through the hassle again, I may wait awhile.  I still have to get the house wired to serve my old phone extensions anyway.  IF I get a new P.T., I will know how it should work!

Thank you for all of your help!
Tina
-- I am always doing what I cannot do yet, in order to learn how to do it. - Van Gogh -- 1885

Offline Phonesrfun

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Re: Need help with Panasonic 616/308 proprietary phone
« Reply #37 on: February 05, 2016, 11:11:09 PM »
A KXT7030 telephone set will not give dial tone if plugged into a standard POTS wall jack.  It needs the power from the outer two wires to make it work.  Even though a legacy POTS analog phone will work when plugged into a 308, the reverse is not true.  The 7030 needs to be mated with the proprietary PBX to work.

This thread seems to be long and I haven't been following it, and so this might have already been pointed out, but have you tried the KXT7030 in the 308 with no other items plugged in?  If any other item plugged into an extension jack has a short or a cross between the outer pair and inner pair, it would probably keep the entire system from functioning.  The outer pair of wires is both a power source and a multiplexed signal source for all the functions like the lights and buttons.  Maybe that has already been suggested.

If your phone does not work, I think I have one I could sell, but it is black.
-Bill G

unbeldi

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Re: Need help with Panasonic 616/308 proprietary phone
« Reply #38 on: February 06, 2016, 12:17:52 PM »
I located a service manual for the 7030 with the circuit diagram and I have to agree with you now, after studying it a bit.
The 7030 did not have power-fail feature. It has only one power supply connection to the outer pins.
In comparing the operating manuals with the 30830 set, which was the original 'programming' (configuring, really) PT for the KX-T308(10), it is notable that the power-fail feature is not mentioned in it, as it is for the 30830.  Unfortunately, I have not found a service manual for the 30830 so far, and have to go by my pictures of the circuit board of the unit I have.

Interestingly, the 123230, also does not seem to provide it, for which I do have a circuit diagram.

Tina, sorry to have led you on an excursion, but at least we learned an additional bit of info about these.
In looking at the list of telephones compatible with the KX-TA series of PBXes, which Jack mentioned,  there is listed a 7033, which does seem to have a power-fail switch, not the automatic fail-over as on my phone.

Also lacking in the 7030, appears to be the capability to use pulse-dialing in the telephone, which makes sense since it doesn't support the analog line feature.  Clearly the intend was to produce a line of cheaper telephones in the 7000 series.

Attached is the manual set that I have for the 7030:
- Reference Manual
- Service Manual
- Operating Instructions


Offline cloyd

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Re: Need help with Panasonic 616/308 proprietary phone
« Reply #39 on: February 06, 2016, 01:42:11 PM »
A KXT7030 telephone set will not give dial tone if plugged into a standard POTS wall jack.  It needs the power from the outer two wires to make it work.  Even though a legacy POTS analog phone will work when plugged into a 308, the reverse is not true.  The 7030 needs to be mated with the proprietary PBX to work.

This thread seems to be long and I haven't been following it, and so this might have already been pointed out, but have you tried the KXT7030 in the 308 with no other items plugged in?  If any other item plugged into an extension jack has a short or a cross between the outer pair and inner pair, it would probably keep the entire system from functioning.  The outer pair of wires is both a power source and a multiplexed signal source for all the functions like the lights and buttons.  Maybe that has already been suggested.

If your phone does not work, I think I have one I could sell, but it is black.

Bill,
Thank you for giving me more advice.  I unplugged all other items and still no life in the 7030.  I then tried to only plug in the CO line and, again, nothing.  If you have another 7030 that you could part with, PM me with a price.  At least I would know that it worked.
Thank you,
Tina
-- I am always doing what I cannot do yet, in order to learn how to do it. - Van Gogh -- 1885

Offline Phonesrfun

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Re: Need help with Panasonic 616/308 proprietary phone
« Reply #40 on: February 08, 2016, 03:12:55 AM »


Bill,
Thank you for giving me more advice.  I unplugged all other items and still no life in the 7030.  I then tried to only plug in the CO line and, again, nothing.  If you have another 7030 that you could part with, PM me with a price.  At least I would know that it worked.
Thank you,
Tina

Tina, Here is a photo.  It is in fair shape and it checks out on my 616, and it should work on the 308 from all the documents I have read.

I will PM with a price.

-Bill
-Bill G

unbeldi

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Re: Need help with Panasonic 616/308 proprietary phone
« Reply #41 on: February 08, 2016, 09:16:05 AM »
Reviewing the entire thread, it does seem to me that the most likely culprit of having a defect is most likely the PBX.  After all, the third port is known to be defective already, even for standard SLT telephones.  Another aspect I find strange is that a 302 would not work in the system.  I have never had a 302 not working on any of my KX-T30810s or 616s, I still have two each.  The only problems I recall  are some intermittent ring trip issues with a 534A subscriber set connected to a 308.  The 534A has a low impedance ringer, as we know.

I would be cautious of buying another PT, just to experiment.  The money may be better spent at first by buying a simple handheld multimeter at HomeDepot, which will come in handy in many circumstances a collector may face.    It should be easy to measure the voltage on the outer pins of jacks. It should be ca. 12 to 13 Volts DC. Simply use a four-conductor modular cord from one of the jacks to a loose (not installed) modular wall connecting box--also available at HomeDepot, I think, but much cheaper when harvested from old telephone installations or at your local ReStore outlet.  Open the box, and measure between the yellow and black terminals.

Offline Phonesrfun

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Re: Need help with Panasonic 616/308 proprietary phone
« Reply #42 on: February 08, 2016, 10:52:58 AM »
Tina:

Unbeldi brings up a good point.  It is my recollection that inside the 308 and 616 are little glass fuses for the DC power supply.  Getting the cover off the main unit is not that difficult; there are several screws, and there may be yet another cover over the power supply (I can't remember), but the power supply is found in the lower part of the cabinet and is obvious by a couple of large transformers and capacitors.  MAKE SURE IT IS UNPLUGGED BEFORE YOU START.

You can even visually inspect the fuses for being blown even without a multimeter.  However a multimeter will aid in doing a continuity check on the fuses, because those little suckers are hard to see sometimes!

It's going to be a day or so before I can get the phone ready to be sent, since I need to go and get a box, etc and my work schedule is insane, so in the meantime....if you have the time.... you might want to check out that part.
-Bill G

Offline Ktownphoneco

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Re: Need help with Panasonic 616/308 proprietary phone
« Reply #43 on: February 08, 2016, 01:54:41 PM »
Bill & Karl bring up some good points.      My 616 was blowing one of the aforementioned glass fuses, about every 12 months.      After the same fuse blew for the second time, and for no apparent reason, I installed a surge protector (SP) on the 120V wall receptacle, and pluged the 616 into the SP.      That glass fuse inside the 616 hasn't blown since.


Jeff Lamb

unbeldi

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Re: Need help with Panasonic 616/308 proprietary phone
« Reply #44 on: February 08, 2016, 02:08:27 PM »
The fuses are rated 250 V / 1.5 A.  I don't have a spec whether they are fast- or slow-blow, but I would use slow here.
They are just before each of the two rectifiers.

I don't seem to have a picture of the 308 power supply board, but I have one from a 616.  The fuses are clearly seen in the center, both at right angle to each other.
« Last Edit: February 08, 2016, 02:17:03 PM by unbeldi »