Author Topic: My WECo 202 won't Dial Out  (Read 5268 times)

Offline Rex_S

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My WECo 202 won't Dial Out
« on: February 06, 2016, 04:18:14 PM »
I have an issue with several 202's (Model D I believe) that won't dial out.  They work in all other aspects.   I have one that has a filter and another that doesn't.  I have verified the wiring per the diagrams.  However, I don't have subsets for these so they wire right to the 4 wire house modern plug.    I have a VOIP phone system with a pulse to tone converter.  I can successfully dial out with my WE 500 and also a WE 5302 with the converter.

My 202's do not have subsets.  I also have an older candle stick with subset that won't dial out.  I did test the candle stick on a non-VOIP system and it dialed fine.  The 202's dials seem to make contact the correct number of times as I dial the numbers.

Is this a wiring issue or what could cause the older dials not to be recognized by the pulse to tone converters?

Any help would be appreciated!

Offline Doug Rose

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Re: My WECo 202 won't Dial Out
« Reply #1 on: February 06, 2016, 04:56:23 PM »
Call your Telephone Provider and ask them if they support Rotary Dialing. I had Comcast and they do (did), I switched to FIOS and found out they do NOT. Welcome to the Forum.......Doug
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Offline Rex_S

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Re: My WECo 202 won't Dial Out
« Reply #2 on: February 06, 2016, 05:02:47 PM »
Here is the wiring of one with out the filter.  It has an E1 handset.  It has a 5H dial.
« Last Edit: February 06, 2016, 05:07:39 PM by Rex_S »

Offline Rex_S

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Re: My WECo 202 won't Dial Out
« Reply #3 on: February 06, 2016, 05:04:59 PM »
Doug, they do not support rotary dialing which is why I have the pulse to DTMF tone converter which does work for the other WE 500's and WE 5302 I own.

Here is the wiring for the one with the filter and an F1 handset.

unbeldi

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Re: My WECo 202 won't Dial Out
« Reply #4 on: February 06, 2016, 06:15:24 PM »
Your 202s need a subset to work correctly.  You cannot wire the four-conductor mounting cord straight into a wall jack.  The telephone line that is terminated on the wall jack, or any telephone line for that matter, or your pulse-to-tone converter, only uses two pins, the center pins on the RJ-11 jack.   The subset is necessary to convert the signals from the four wires of transmitter and receiver to the two-wire interface of the telephone network.

If you search the forum, you will find many posts where this is discussed, with wiring diagrams and all.
« Last Edit: February 06, 2016, 06:19:47 PM by unbeldi »

Online Phonesrfun

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Re: My WECo 202 won't Dial Out
« Reply #5 on: February 06, 2016, 07:30:03 PM »
2nd what Unbeldi said.

The cord from a 500 and the cord from the 302 are completely different in their use.  The way you have it when you plug it directly into the outlet, the red and green wires of the desk set connect directly across tip and ring of the line.  That means your receiver element is connected directly across the line with no transmitter in the circuit and no dial pulsing.  When you take the dial off normal, it will cut off the receiver and put it back on when the dial comes to rest.  You need a subset.
-Bill G

Offline Rex_S

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Re: My WECo 202 won't Dial Out
« Reply #6 on: February 06, 2016, 07:30:20 PM »
So, then can you give me any insight on why my candle stick phone (common battery) with subset won't dial out either?  I tested the candle stick at a friends house who has a carrier that supports rotary dialing.  It just seems that the older clackety clack dials are not generating tone on the pulse to tone converter.

Online Phonesrfun

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Re: My WECo 202 won't Dial Out
« Reply #7 on: February 06, 2016, 07:39:18 PM »
So, then can you give me any insight on why my candle stick phone (common battery) with subset won't dial out either?  I tested the candle stick at a friends house who has a carrier that supports rotary dialing.  It just seems that the older clackety clack dials are not generating tone on the pulse to tone converter.
A lot of variables are involved there.  At your friend's house, if the carrier supports rotary dialing, you would not need the pulse to tone converter at all, so I don't fully understand what you are saying.  But, lets say that the friend's house is fully rotary compatible.  If the candlestick is properly wired to a functioning subset and if the dial and all other components are working, there would be no reason for it to not work, even without the tone converter.  We would need some more information to get it up and running.
-Bill G

Offline Rex_S

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Re: My WECo 202 won't Dial Out
« Reply #8 on: February 06, 2016, 07:46:03 PM »
Bill, sorry I wasn't clear enough.  I tested the candle stick phone with subset at a friends house.  I did not use the tone converter there.  Their carrier supported rotary phones.  It could dial out and receive calls and all was good.

Then I went home and tried it using my tone converter and it did not dial out.  It receives calls and rings fine.  My 500 and 5302 work fine in this same setup with the tone converter.  It just seemed strange that the candle stick woun't work when the other phones work and especially by the fact it dialed out fine on a carrier that supported rotary (I.e. At friends house).

What more info would you need to help resolve this?  Sorry for all the questions but I'm new to the wiring setup aspect of these older phones.  I appreciate the help.

-Rex

Online Phonesrfun

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Re: My WECo 202 won't Dial Out
« Reply #9 on: February 06, 2016, 08:09:13 PM »
If the 500 and 5302 work with the pulse to tone converter, then there is no reason why the candlestick with subset should not work too, unless the dial speed is so far off the converter can't convert.  Can you tell us what candlestick phone you have and which subset you are using?  Photos of the wiring would help too.  Also, on the candlestick, dial a zero and dial a zero on the 500 or the 5302.  Compare then side by side.  The candlestick dial should not be noticeably different is speed from the other phones.
It is possible that if there is a significant difference between the candlestick and the other two phones the candlestick might be way out of specs as far as dial speed is concerned.

Phone companies generally allow a wide range of tolerance in dial speeds.  Perhaps the converter is not so tolerant.

Any way, some things to check out.
-Bill G

unbeldi

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Re: My WECo 202 won't Dial Out
« Reply #10 on: February 06, 2016, 08:26:49 PM »
Second back as well.

Which kind of pulse-to-tone converter are you using?
They are also not fool-proof by any means.  We have had many discussions here on mysterious failure scenarios.  In general, the converters don't have a power supply of their own and draw power from the line.  Thus, they are competing with the phone for the power it needs to operate and this is a tricky business that is in general is not well solved by any of the converters that have been presented here in the past. It depends a great deal on how much load the phone represents to the line.
An old candlestick telephone typically has a subset with a low impedance ringer, meaning it loads the line with a higher REN value than a more modern phone.  This can be up to four times as much load in some cases.
Secondly, it depends on the type of line the converter is connected to.  Modern VoIP ATAs or embedded MTAs in cable modems do not provide as much talk battery current as a telco land line.  This aggravates the current and load problem.


« Last Edit: February 06, 2016, 08:28:26 PM by unbeldi »

Offline Rex_S

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Re: My WECo 202 won't Dial Out
« Reply #11 on: February 06, 2016, 08:34:16 PM »
I have two pulse-to-tone converters.  The first one I tried was the Oldphoneworks out of Canada external to the phone.  That one is hit or miss and sometimes work and sometimes not.  I then bought one from the guy in Australia.  It is an external to phone model.  I plug that in at my VOIP to Internet line interface.  It works for the 500 phones no matter where I plug the phone in.

For the candle stick, it didn't work so I moved it to the outlet right by the candle stick just to see if distance may have been a problem. It didn't work.  Actually neither brand conver worked with the candle stick.

I thought I might try the Rotatone which installs inside the phone but I don't know at this point.


Offline jsowers

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Re: My WECo 202 won't Dial Out
« Reply #12 on: February 06, 2016, 09:03:45 PM »
Would it work to disconnect the ringer in the candlestick's subset temporarily to see if it then works to dial? If like Unbeldi says it's being loaded down, then take it out of the mix temporarily and see. Take some pics first so you know where everything goes. It may be more complicated than I know since I don't have any candlestick phones, so I just thought maybe it would work.

Also what about connecting one of your 202s to that same subset and see if it works in place of the candlestick? I don't know if it would be compatible since we don't have any numbers or pictures to go by, to know exactly what you have. But it might help to know if it works with a different phone. Subbing things out can tell you a lot sometimes.
Jonathan

Offline Doug Rose

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Re: My WECo 202 won't Dial Out
« Reply #13 on: February 06, 2016, 09:10:19 PM »
Rex....There is absolutely no reason why your 202 won't work as wired. I have never used a pulse to tone converter, but the way you have it wired it correct. It must be your converter.

Yes...the proper way is to use a subset, but your phone WILL work with a modular cord plugged into your phone outlet. It will dial out and you will have audio transmission and reception, but it will not ring.

Your 202 will be working like a Telephone Technician's test set. No coil, no condenser that the subset gives you, along with the gongs to ring. But it most surely will work...just not as designed....Doug
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Offline Babybearjs

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Re: My WECo 202 won't Dial Out
« Reply #14 on: February 06, 2016, 09:32:45 PM »
I thought you needed the coil and condensers.... don't the condensers help in the current conversion....?
John