Author Topic: Best Cabling & Termination System for House Wiring from a PBX?  (Read 5654 times)

Offline cloyd

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Re: Best Cabling & Termination System for House Wiring from a PBX?
« Reply #15 on: March 02, 2016, 03:54:44 PM »
Great!

I have solved the telephone end of the termination with keystone RJ-11 jacks from HD.  What I need for the PBX end of the termination is a patch panel (or whatever) that goes from Cat5E to RJ-11.  It is the RJ-11 that is slowing me down.  It is easy to find them for RJ-45.  When I search, I get lots of products without sufficient description for me to know whether it is what I need.  Loads of Telco/IT talk.

Does anyone have a source for me?  Also, my PBX which is a Panasonic 616 (RJ-11 x 16 ext) will be mounted in the laundry room so I would like to be able to protect the connections with a covering of some sort.  Most of the blocks and panels are modular to fit into a rack or cabinet.  Suggestions?

Thank you for the help!

Tina
-- I am always doing what I cannot do yet, in order to learn how to do it. - Van Gogh -- 1885

Offline NorthernElectric

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Re: Best Cabling & Termination System for House Wiring from a PBX?
« Reply #16 on: March 02, 2016, 04:29:33 PM »
What I need for the PBX end of the termination is a patch panel (or whatever) that goes from Cat5E to RJ-11.  It is the RJ-11 that is slowing me down.  It is easy to find them for RJ-45.  When I search, I get lots of products without sufficient description for me to know whether it is what I need.  Loads of Telco/IT talk.

You're bound to get lots of RJ45 search hits if you are searching for CAT5E!  Like I mentioned earlier, CAT5E is extensively used for ethernet networks, which use RJ45 connectors.  CAT5E is not terribly important as a search term for you because you could be using a wide variety of cable types that contain similar wires.

So, others may have other sources for you, but if you go back to the previous post I made that had 2 ebay search links, you will find some that specifically mention 'RJ11'.
Cliff


Offline cloyd

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Re: Best Cabling & Termination System for House Wiring from a PBX?
« Reply #18 on: March 02, 2016, 05:04:22 PM »
Thank you Cliff!

You are absolutely right, it does say that it is RJ-11 right in the heading.  I will look into that one!

On their website, it says that you need a proprietary punchdown tool and they want $80.  It must be really nice.   ;) 
Surely, any decent punch down tool will work or am I wrong?

Thank you for your patience!

Tina
-- I am always doing what I cannot do yet, in order to learn how to do it. - Van Gogh -- 1885

Offline Stubbypylon

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Re: Best Cabling & Termination System for House Wiring from a PBX?
« Reply #19 on: March 02, 2016, 05:05:51 PM »
You need a BIX punchdown tool for BIX blocks.  Otherwise you won't get the proper connection or may damage the BIX block.
Craig Stanowski

Offline Stubbypylon

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Re: Best Cabling & Termination System for House Wiring from a PBX?
« Reply #20 on: March 02, 2016, 05:09:14 PM »
QTBIX16A is the punchdown tool.  You'll also need a QTBIX17A test clip.  The BIX 36B needs to be inserted into in either a BIX 10A or 10C mount such as on Terry's pictures he posted.
Craig Stanowski

Offline mentalstampede

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Re: Best Cabling & Termination System for House Wiring from a PBX?
« Reply #21 on: March 02, 2016, 05:46:42 PM »
How many extensions will you be using? You could use the same type of system at both ends; You'd use the same RJ11 keystone jacks, and the same punchdown tool. Keystone plates are available in many sizes. I have seen them with up to 12 ports.

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00DDH3X5Q/ref=pd_lpo_sbs_dp_ss_1?pf_rd_p=1944687662&pf_rd_s=lpo-top-stripe-1&pf_rd_t=201&pf_rd_i=B004FUYYWG&pf_rd_m=ATVPDKIKX0DER&pf_rd_r=1GAESQWKH870KSDAZJZA
My name is Kenn, and I like telephones.

“Progress isn't made by early risers. It's made by lazy men trying to find easier ways to do something.” --Robert Heinlein

Offline Babybearjs

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Re: Best Cabling & Termination System for House Wiring from a PBX?
« Reply #22 on: March 02, 2016, 06:22:46 PM »
Another good source to get parts from is www.deepsurplus.com. I used all RJ45 jacks in my setup and have some RJ-12 jacks in my parts collection. I used 1 RJ-12 in my kitchen to connect my caller ID unit to.  having both RJ12 and RJ 45 jacks really helps because you can have both Ethernet and telephone services at 1 jack.
John

Offline NorthernElectric

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Re: Best Cabling & Termination System for House Wiring from a PBX?
« Reply #23 on: March 02, 2016, 06:27:22 PM »
On their website, it says that you need a proprietary punchdown tool and they want $80.  It must be really nice.   ;)

80 bucks?  Depends where you shop.   ;D

Here's 3 for $30:  bix punch tool blade bit all in one tool---- price for 3 tools ibdn

1 for $27.95 with free shipping:  Northern Telecom QTB1X16A Bix Connecting Tool Bix Punch Tool Terminate 22-26-AW
« Last Edit: March 02, 2016, 06:29:34 PM by NorthernElectric »
Cliff

Offline AE_Collector

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Re: Best Cabling & Termination System for House Wiring from a PBX?
« Reply #24 on: March 02, 2016, 08:20:10 PM »
If you want to go with BIX stuff I have loads of it. I could probably put together a complete kit for you if we can decide exactly what is needed. There are still some gray areas, Chameleon Gray for all you NT guys :)

I have BIX frames, BIX termination strips, BIX jack strips, BIX punchdown tools and test clips and jumper wire. Oh and a couple of types of BIX jacks for the other end of the cables, MDVO and DVO.

If you will have a BIX tool then I would use phone cords from PBX to a BIX jack strip and terminate your 4 pair cables on (non jack) BIX strips. Then you will jumper connections between the jack strips and the 4 pair cables using jumper wire and the BIX tool. This gives you complete flexibility of what lines or stations you send where.

How many 4 pair runs in total will you have to phone jacks throughout the house?

Will there be one 4 pair bringing your telephone line to the BIX panel?

Did you run any data lines as well or just phone?

Is your PBX a 3 line 8 station or larger 6 line(?) 16 station system?

Here are three pictures:

The First Picture is an example of the BIX MDVO jacks in my house. Sorry it is sideways, took it vertically with my iPad. This one has one data run on a black MDVO jack two white tel jacks and one blank filler plate. I also have COAX Cable connector inserts for the MDVO plates. Two can be seen in the third picture.

My numbering scheme is D for data runs, this one being data run 03 and all data jacks are black. The two white tel jacks each have two pairs in them and are fed by one 4 pair cable. Thus they are both T20 (tel run 20) and the ab jack has the first two pairs of the cable and the cd jack has the third and fourth pairs of the cable.

Second Picture is a 10 position BIX frame with two sets of BIX Jack strips with 12 two pair jacks per strip. These woukd be connected to your PBX with modular phone cords. Then there are 6 BIX 25 pair termination strips where your 4 pair cables would be punched down. You probably dont need this many. 6 cables can be terminated on each strip. Also in the picture is a test clip new in the bag and a BIX punchdown tool.

Third Picture is of Jacks for the rooms. DVO jacks at the top of the picture have BIX punchdown connections but don't have individual inserts mounted in a plate. There are single and double jack versions and I may have a couple with 4 jacks in one plate. There are also single and double jack surface mount types.

Below the DVO jacks in the third picture are M(modular)DVO plates and examples of the inserts. These inserts do not use BIX punch downs but are IDC. You feed the wires into the small retainer piece and then squeeze them together and cut off the wire ends afterwards. This takes a bit of practice. The DVO's with BIX terminations are by far the easiest but not quite as flexible as you cant mix different types of inserts in one plate. You need to use a DVO plate that meets your requirements. MDVO and DVO jacks are all 8 position 568A format jacks so they can be used for data or phone.

Terry
« Last Edit: March 03, 2016, 12:40:26 PM by AE_Collector »

Offline jsowers

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Re: Best Cabling & Termination System for House Wiring from a PBX?
« Reply #25 on: March 02, 2016, 10:37:32 PM »
How many extensions will you be using? You could use the same type of system at both ends; You'd use the same RJ11 keystone jacks, and the same punchdown tool. Keystone plates are available in many sizes. I have seen them with up to 12 ports.

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00DDH3X5Q/ref=pd_lpo_sbs_dp_ss_1?pf_rd_p=1944687662&pf_rd_s=lpo-top-stripe-1&pf_rd_t=201&pf_rd_i=B004FUYYWG&pf_rd_m=ATVPDKIKX0DER&pf_rd_r=1GAESQWKH870KSDAZJZA

Tina, you need to seriously consider the above suggestion. It's the simplest alternative by far. Jacks that are alike on both ends will suffice to terminate your wiring if you don't plan to use it for computers or expand it greatly. You may never need computer wiring if you use a laptop. If you do, you can just get an RJ45 module for both ends and use that.

As far as a cabinet goes, you can look for something at Home Depot like this one at the link below. This cabinet is from Amazon and it's 4" deep and may be deep enough to handle several shallow wiremold boxes with your faceplates on it for about 24 or so jacks. There are knockouts on the top you can use to run your wires in and out.

http://www.amazon.com/Arlington-EB1212-1-Electronic-Equipment-Non-Metallic/dp/B00AAU5D6Q/ref=sr_1_1?s=industrial&ie=UTF8&qid=1456975220&sr=1-1&keywords=panel+box

Just my opinion, of course, and it's based on experience after terminating tens of thousands of network wires in all kinds of school locations for about 20 years. I've used patch panels and BIX and 110 and all that stuff and it can get very complicated.
Jonathan

Offline AE_Collector

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Re: Best Cabling & Termination System for House Wiring from a PBX?
« Reply #26 on: March 03, 2016, 01:09:52 AM »
Yes you could keep it simpler without too much loss of flexibility by just putting a jack on each end of the 4 pair cables so you that you wind up with a collection of jacks at the PBX end. The collection of jacks could be mounted in a cabinet or just on the wall and then use phone cords to patch stations directly from the PBX out to the rooms.

To increase the capacity I would suggest putting double jacks on each end of the cables, each jack using two of the pairs of the 4 pair cable. Thus you can patch two stations or a station and an appearance of the CO line to each room. The two pair jacks would also allow for the digital Panasonic phones if your system needs 2 pairs for the proprietery phones.

Also, you can still squeeze up to 4 jacks out of each of the two - 2 pair jacks by using plug in "two line adapters" in each of tge jacks. These look just like the common double jack adapters that plug into a jack to turn it into two jacks but are wired differently inside to bring out the second cable/jack pair to the second jack in tge adapter.

You likely would want your CO line wired to several jacks at the patching area so you can patch it into the PBX as well as directly through to numerous rooms as well.

You could avoid the need for BIX tools and the like by using good old fashioned screw terminal jacks on each end rather than punch down jacks. Likely flush mount (plate) type in the rooms if you have boxes or rings in the walls and maybe surface mount type jacks at the PBX end of the cable runs. You might mount the PBX on a piece of plywood to make it easy to mount to the wall and then you can mount surface jacks to the plywood as well with your new 4 pair station runs terminated directly on the jacks two pairs per jack.

This method eliminates the ability to incorporate data and or coax runs into the same plates and just allows the new wiring to be used for phones but maybe that is all you want to be able to do with it ultimately.

Terry
« Last Edit: March 03, 2016, 01:17:58 AM by AE_Collector »

Offline cloyd

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Re: Best Cabling & Termination System for House Wiring from a PBX?
« Reply #27 on: March 03, 2016, 12:14:59 PM »
Thank you everyone for figuring out what I really meant.  Wording is so important!  I should have entitled this thread, "Simplest" or "Least Expensive Cat5e termination to a PBX."  I want to do it correctly and safely but done is good!

I like the suggestion of using wall plates and punchdown keystone jacks on each end of the lines (PBX and phone ends)!  I can wrap this limited brain around the idea without having to learn the lingo and buy the extensive equipment of a telecom tech.

I will post pictures of the finished product!

Thank you!

Tina
-- I am always doing what I cannot do yet, in order to learn how to do it. - Van Gogh -- 1885

Offline AE_Collector

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Re: Best Cabling & Termination System for House Wiring from a PBX?
« Reply #28 on: March 03, 2016, 12:33:11 PM »
There, how's that for a new title? Used to be Best Cat5e termination to a PBX?

I eliminated the Cat5e part as well because that isnt what you are doing. It just happens that you are using some of the parts and pieces normally used to build a Cat5 structured data wiring system.

Now to find the topic a better home than in Telephone Repair and Restoration! Maybe we need a "Telephone Cabling, Wiring and Termination" area somewhere, possibly in the switching PBX areas.

Terry
« Last Edit: March 03, 2016, 12:38:32 PM by AE_Collector »

Offline jsowers

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Re: Best Cabling & Termination System for House Wiring from a PBX?
« Reply #29 on: March 03, 2016, 03:15:36 PM »
Tina, please keep us posted on your progress. I think simple is always the best way to start something. You can always make changes later and you're pulling wire that will accept many different configurations.

The "jacks on both ends" method is how I wired our first school network. It was so long ago that IBM, our server and workstation vendor at the time, pointedly asked us "You're not going with Token Ring?" like we were making a horrible mistake. We went with Ethernet and never looked back. This had to be 1995 or so.

It was a high school and eventually they outgrew the "jacks on both ends" method and I changed to a patch panel and a rack. I just re-used those jacks, boxes and faceplates in other places. A house isn't nearly as likely to outgrow that method as a school with 35 classrooms.

Be sure to label everything as you're pulling the wire. You can use numbers or, if you have enough room on the jacks, room descriptions. We always used numbers and made a map of the building and wrote the numbers on the map. Then label the faceplates with the numbers on both ends with a Sharpie or a P-touch. A map of all the wiring pulls will also help you plan everything out the most efficient way.
Jonathan