Author Topic: Western Electric Type 1 Dial Patent Information  (Read 1331 times)

Online Ktownphoneco

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Western Electric Type 1 Dial Patent Information
« on: March 02, 2016, 12:01:06 PM »
The following information may have already been posted on the CRPF.

"Unbeldi" : Karl, you may this interesting if you haven't already seen it.

This information may be of interest to many of the members of CRPF, and other collectors as well.     Periodically, I do patent searches for telephone related patents, both with the Canadian Intellectual Property Office ( fancy words for patent office ), and the United States Patent & Trademark Office.
I was initially searching for the patent for the Northern Electric spring switches found on the back of the Northern type 4H dial.     In so doing, and in conjunction with that particular spring switch set, I found the patent information for what I believe, is the Western Electric type 1 dial.
I have never seen one, but have read or heard, through members of both the Antique Telephone Collectors Association ( ATCA ), and Telephone Collectors International ( TCI ), and this forum, of various references and partial descriptions of the type 1 dial.
I've located Both the U.S. and Canadian version of the patent for the type 1 dial, and the Northern type 4H dial spring switch assembly.
Looking at the patent drawing, it appears that there is a cap (11) sitting atop a main gear (13) and sprocket (12), and that both have a specific hole with flat sides, similar to a typical Western type finger wheel, and that a round disk with the same drive drive hole mounted on top of the cap, and that the number plate sits atop the disk.    It appears that the number plate has a tab which inserts through a matching slot on the aforementioned disk.   What appears to be a spacer sits atop the number plate, followed by the finger wheel with flat sided drive shaft inserts through the entire assembly, and through a bearing affixed to the inside of the dial case.      When the finger wheel is turned, it also turns the spacer, number plate and disk.   
 
Obviously the Western type 1 dial was invented by an American inventor ( Oscar F., FORSBERG of Yonkers, NY ), and the patent assigned to Western Electric.        But I've also learned that the spring switch set on the back of the Northern Electric type 4H dial, was also invented by an American inventor, ( Victor F., MILLER of Queens, NY ) and was intended for use on the back of the Western type 1 dial.      The patent for what I believe to be the type 1 dial, was issued November 30th, 1915, and the unique spring switch assembly received it's patent on May 7th, 1929.
I'm not sure as to when Northern started production on the type 4H dial, but I have one dated 1934.
It's interesting to note the the inventor's explanation as to the reason he designed the unique spring switch stack, was to simplify the operation of the switch, to provide more precise adjustment characteristics, and to eliminate both the need for a wiring harness
and the spring pile up block where the springs, spacers and insulating wafers are stacked one on top of the other.

I've attached the U.S. version of the patents for what I believe is the Western Electric type 1 dial, and the spring switch set used by Northern Electric on their type 4H dials.

Jeff Lamb
 

unbeldi

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Re: Western Electric Type 1 Dial Patent Information
« Reply #1 on: March 02, 2016, 01:04:17 PM »
Thanks, Jeff for thinking about me.
Yes, I have the Forsberg and Miller patents already, but I would certainly be interested in the Canadian documents, for which I have not spent much time searching.

I also have that Forsberg patent listed in my notes as the WECo No. 1 dial, but it more likely was not, and is an earlier D-number, such as D-8083, which has the contact arrangement shown in that patent.

The No. 1 dial had a new contact, with break action, while the D-8083 only had a single, separate off-normal make contact. The make contact on #1 was linked to the DP contact.

See schematics attached.

The single, isolated ON make function of the D-8083 is the reason that some explain that the dial was made for switch board equipment in exchanges that AT&T took over from the purchase of independent telcos, where a single make-switch is sufficient to operate a relay in the board, while it is insufficient to provide a quality user experience if installed in a subscriber station.

But, I think, the number of contact springs installed on a dial is only a minor aspect of dial design, so I would argue that the patent is the origin of all the early WECo dials, other than those of the 7000 series for the Rotary System.
« Last Edit: March 02, 2016, 01:22:17 PM by unbeldi »

unbeldi

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Re: Western Electric Type 1 Dial Patent Information
« Reply #2 on: March 02, 2016, 01:31:18 PM »
BTW, the design patent for the Forsberg dial is US D52009 ''Design for a Calling Device" 1915/1918 granted

PS: here it is:
« Last Edit: March 02, 2016, 01:34:09 PM by unbeldi »

Online Ktownphoneco

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Re: Western Electric Type 1 Dial Patent Information
« Reply #3 on: March 02, 2016, 02:00:24 PM »
I just downloaded it.   Thanks Karl.      Here are the Canadian versions of the patents in my last post.     They're not nearly as good a quality as the U.S. originals.   
I do a fair amount of dial repair, service and calibration, but I'm not all that knowledgeable with respect to their history.      It's very interesting to look at and study the old patents, but the research to locate the patent information is so time consuming, I just don't have the time to spend in front of the computer.   

BTW, the other device ( we've talked about this before)  I'm trying to find the patent information for, is the receiver assembly in the Northern "NF" handset that was developed for the early Uniphone sets.      I'm sure it's a Western or Bell Labs receiver, but I need the patent information to prove the point.      It has a typical Western "D" number on it ( D 96337), but so far, I haven't had any luck finding it.

Jeff



Canadian Patents Attached ( You'll be impressed by the poor quality):

unbeldi

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Re: Western Electric Type 1 Dial Patent Information
« Reply #4 on: March 02, 2016, 02:12:04 PM »

I just downloaded it.   Thanks Karl.      Here are the Canadian versions of the patents in my last post.     

Thanks!

Quote
... It's very interesting to look at and study the old patents, but the research to locate the patent information is so time consuming, I just don't have the time to spend in front of the computer.

Yes,  By my observation, 1915 seems to be the year of the dial.  WECo/BTL/AT&T submitted at least a half dozen different dial designs that year, both here in the US and from the European branch, and IIRC, Automatic Electric, as well as Kellogg, also submitted dials that year, or there about.

Quote
BTW, the other device ( we've talked about this before)  I'm trying to find the patent information for, is the receiver assembly in the Northern "NF" handset that was developed for the early Uniphone sets.      I'm sure it's a Western or Bell Labs receiver, but I need the patent information to prove the point.      It has a typical Western "D" number on it ( D 96337), but so far, I haven't had any luck finding it.

I'll keep my eyes open...   First I should check my collection of patents of which I have many, I usually download all patents that are referenced in the materials I read, and organize them some time later.

unbeldi

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Re: Western Electric Type 1 Dial Patent Information
« Reply #5 on: March 02, 2016, 02:26:08 PM »
Wow, one of them is just shockingly poor.  But it seems to be just a cover letter essentially with the US original text attached.

The virtue of the  Miller patent and of the NECo 4H contact assembly was that it didn't need the wires underneath the terminal plate that the WECo design had, which I always thought was a rather lousy design.  The AE dials are also much more elegantly designed in that regard.  WECo didn't figure it out until the Nos. 6 and 7 dials.
« Last Edit: March 02, 2016, 03:05:36 PM by unbeldi »