Author Topic: Got myself this barn fresh Kellogg red bar  (Read 3947 times)

unbeldi

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Got myself this barn fresh Kellogg red bar
« on: March 11, 2016, 10:34:59 AM »
Got myself this Kellogg red bar.
It was literally in a barn. I picked it up myself.

EDIT:  This phone was first posted in Barn Fresh Phones:

http://www.classicrotaryphones.com/forum/index.php?topic=15387.msg164483#msg164483

The following discussion of the phone was split out of Barn Fresh Phones and follows from this point on because this phone generated a discussion of its own.

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That doesn't look so bad.  Just a little dirty. Too bad about the broken Bakelite, but that is very common on these.
Nice dial and number card !
It is actually a Select-O-Phone PBX station.
Is it marked D1002 ?

Do you have an inside picture?
Is the dial a No. 11A ?
« Last Edit: March 11, 2016, 09:04:32 PM by TelePlay »

Offline Matilo Telephones

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Re: Got myself this barn fresh Kellogg red bar
« Reply #1 on: March 11, 2016, 11:39:09 AM »
Well, I posted it here because it was indeed from a barn, literally. :-) It's dirty, but not rusty fortunately.

Here are some additional pics. It is indeed an SOP and marked D1002. I understand that all of those with a doorbell style button are SOP's.

The dial is marked 11a
Groeten,

Arwin

Check out my telephone website: http://www.matilo.eu/?lang=en

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Offline Matilo Telephones

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Re: Got myself this barn fresh Kellogg red bar
« Reply #2 on: March 11, 2016, 11:40:49 AM »
And one more.

The dialcard is unwritten, so that is good. Seems to be in good condition, as are the feet and cords are ok-ish.

There is a plug on it I have never seen before. I assume it is of the SOP system.
Groeten,

Arwin

Check out my telephone website: http://www.matilo.eu/?lang=en

And I am on facebook too: www.facebook.com/matilosvintagetelephones

unbeldi

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Re: Got myself this barn fresh Kellogg red bar
« Reply #3 on: March 11, 2016, 12:02:04 PM »
And one more.

The dialcard is unwritten, so that is good. Seems to be in good condition, as are the feet and cords are ok-ish.

There is a plug on it I have never seen before. I assume it is of the SOP system.

I have not seen that plug either.  I think SOPs could be wired in a chain station to station, and I have found cut-off cables that showed that. Haven't seen one with a nice plug as yours.  A station plug would have needed at least four conductors to enable station-to-station signaling, three are sufficient going to the switching unit.

Your cords were made by Koiled Kords. That's what the K stands for in DAK.

Offline Matilo Telephones

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Re: Got myself this barn fresh Kellogg red bar
« Reply #4 on: March 11, 2016, 02:20:54 PM »
Thanks and thanks for explaining that K. By the looks of it the coiled cord seems restorable. Now I will certainly keep it.

I did see that plug on another picture, when researching the Phone. See picture. I found it here: http://www.worthpoint.com/worthopedia/neat-kellogg-d-1002-dak-rotary-dial-bakelite

THis Phone was on my wish list, as I like its design very much. Now that I have one I am surprised by its insides. I like the way the way the components are modular and connected with plugs, prongs and brackets. There is no wiring loom.

I look forward to restoring it.

(Yes, I know it does not work on regular telephone lines :-) )
Groeten,

Arwin

Check out my telephone website: http://www.matilo.eu/?lang=en

And I am on facebook too: www.facebook.com/matilosvintagetelephones

unbeldi

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Re: Got myself this barn fresh Kellogg red bar
« Reply #5 on: March 11, 2016, 02:39:28 PM »
Thanks and thanks for explaining that K. By the looks of it the coiled cord seems restorable. Now I will certainly keep it.

I did see that plug on another picture, when researching the Phone. See picture. I found it here: http://www.worthpoint.com/worthopedia/neat-kellogg-d-1002-dak-rotary-dial-bakelite

THis Phone was on my wish list, as I like its design very much. Now that I have one I am surprised by its insides. I like the way the way the components are modular and connected with plugs, prongs and brackets. There is no wiring loom.

I look forward to restoring it.

(Yes, I know it does not work on regular telephone lines :-) )

Ah, thanks for the additional picture...  Have to stay on the lookout for one with that kind of plug.  Certainly seems to be a standard item for them at that time.  The SOP series evolved dramatically over the decades. Got its start in the 1910s, I believe, long before Kellogg bought them.
The earlylate SOP red-bar sets were made from brown Bakelite, rather than black, and used a different style of button.

Indeed, I would keep the cords if they are electrically useable.  They should have a paper label from the K-K company.  I believe, Koiled Kords was first to make spring cords in the US, at least that's what is written occasionally (I don't have the sources), but they held a patent which expired around 1950 or so, IIRC. Kellogg bought them out too...(hmm, did they?)[Well, it's way more complex, should have consulted my patent search results before writing] In any case, Kellogg, AE, S-C all bought cords from them.
« Last Edit: March 12, 2016, 12:19:11 PM by unbeldi »

Offline TelePlay

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Re: Got myself this barn fresh Kellogg red bar
« Reply #6 on: March 12, 2016, 09:49:06 AM »
Was watching this Red Bar that sold on eBay a few days ago for $58 total.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Brown-Kellogg-D1017-DAK-Red-Bar-Antique-Telephone-/191815787232

It also has that line cord connector. Not the same phone as yours but close. This one is a D1017 and the base internals are different. Pictures added for posterity.

These are great looking phones in several ways. They usually sell for a good buyer price. Started at $9.99.

unbeldi

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Re: Got myself this barn fresh Kellogg red bar
« Reply #7 on: March 12, 2016, 10:38:00 AM »
Was watching this Red Bar that sold on eBay a few days ago for $58 total.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Brown-Kellogg-D1017-DAK-Red-Bar-Antique-Telephone-/191815787232

It also has that line cord connector. Not the same phone as yours but close. This one is a D1017 and the base internals are different. Pictures added for posterity.

These are great looking phones in several ways. They usually sell for a good buyer price. Started at $9.99.

Ah, nice looking set.  Typical Bakelite chips... too bad.

The 1017DA should actually have a standard AST 113A induction coil, but it is completely missing in this set.


« Last Edit: March 12, 2016, 10:47:56 AM by unbeldi »

Offline Matilo Telephones

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Re: Got myself this barn fresh Kellogg red bar
« Reply #8 on: March 13, 2016, 05:02:58 AM »
The capacitor is missing too.

Are these modules repairable?
Groeten,

Arwin

Check out my telephone website: http://www.matilo.eu/?lang=en

And I am on facebook too: www.facebook.com/matilosvintagetelephones

unbeldi

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Re: Got myself this barn fresh Kellogg red bar
« Reply #9 on: March 13, 2016, 12:30:47 PM »
The capacitor is missing too.

Are these modules repairable?

The capacitor position was not used in the 1017.  It required no caps, but they had an option for sidetone modification with an additional capacitor.  I never completed my circuit study for the 1017, so I don't have any specifics about that yet.

While the idea of having these modular circuit packs appears neat, orderly, and easily serviceable by untrained technicians, it appears to add not much to reliability and longevity.  The modular coils and capacitor units are often found split open and the Bakelite of the network wiring block was easily broken.  My impression has been that these telephone sets were simply over-engineered with great ideas of little practical value for simple circuitry as in these phones, and therefore probably could not compete in cost with other makes.

Stromberg-Carlson was the first to use a modular approach already in the late 1930s in the 1200 series, but ended up having a myriad of different networks, which seems to defeat the idea as well. Wiring their networks is a heck more non-intuitive than a WECo circuit.

unbeldi

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Re: Got myself this barn fresh Kellogg red bar
« Reply #10 on: March 13, 2016, 12:37:11 PM »
Are these modules repairable?

The modules are filled with a black tar, probably Hydrolene.    It appears that the stuff expanded more readily in heat than the Bakelite module enclosure, splitting them open.    So, if electrically broken, you have to melt the stuff and empty it to get at the components. The few open ones that I had, I simply glued, close the phone, and  ... hope.

Offline Matilo Telephones

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Re: Got myself this barn fresh Kellogg red bar
« Reply #11 on: April 18, 2016, 05:17:54 PM »
Met up with Remco last weekend. Not only did I meet some other collectors I had never met before, among them Gary Goff, also I was able to buy another red bar from Remco.
And this one has a normal dial. :-)
Very happy with it.
Groeten,

Arwin

Check out my telephone website: http://www.matilo.eu/?lang=en

And I am on facebook too: www.facebook.com/matilosvintagetelephones

Offline LarryInMichigan

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Re: Got myself this barn fresh Kellogg red bar
« Reply #12 on: April 18, 2016, 05:22:33 PM »
Met up with Remco last weekend. Not only did I meet some other collectors I had never met before, among them Gary Goff, also I was able to buy another red bar from Remco.
And this one has a normal dial. :-)
Very happy with it.


Very nice phone Arwin.  This model was also made with a metal shell, so you need to get one of those also :).


Larry

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Re: Got myself this barn fresh Kellogg red bar
« Reply #13 on: April 18, 2016, 05:27:07 PM »
Thank you for pointing that out to me, Larry. ;)
Groeten,

Arwin

Check out my telephone website: http://www.matilo.eu/?lang=en

And I am on facebook too: www.facebook.com/matilosvintagetelephones

unbeldi

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Re: Got myself this barn fresh Kellogg red bar
« Reply #14 on: April 19, 2016, 02:01:35 PM »
Ivory plastic versions are known to exist too, for the exclusive collector club.