Author Topic: SK-1 Key System --NorthernTelecom  (Read 2455 times)

Offline poplar1

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SK-1 Key System --NorthernTelecom
« on: March 19, 2016, 12:08:18 AM »
Does anyone have experience installing or maintaining  Nortel SK-1 Key System, or the NT practice for same?
Keys are Red - Clear - Amber - Clear - Amber - Clear
Common Holding Key (RED) --NOT 3 hold keys and 3 line keys!
Optional intercom

QSY3 power supply: 10VAC and 38VDC outputs.
Does not use a KSU.
Phones are for example NE 564 QFA1 and NE 2565 QFA1.


 
« Last Edit: March 19, 2016, 12:35:22 AM by poplar1 »
"C'est pas une restauration, c'est une rénovation."--François Martin.

Offline AE_Collector

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Re: SK-1 Key System --NorthernTelecom
« Reply #1 on: March 19, 2016, 02:07:00 AM »
I have never heard of or seen these before. Google found this YouTube by Shane Young which gives a couple of clues but more info still needed!

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=lhGsk8n41R4

Terry

Offline poplar1

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Re: SK-1 Key System --NorthernTelecom
« Reply #2 on: March 19, 2016, 02:18:14 AM »
The sets shown are HP(P)P(P)P
H-Hold (non-locking)
P-Line Pickup
(P)-Convertible, Pickup (locking) or Signaling (non-locking)

Keys:                                                               Lamps:
1 Hold (Lines 1,2,3)                                         1 (red) Hold and busy indication Line 1
2 Line 1 (pick-up)                                             2 Ringing Condition Line 1  [neon]
3 Spare button for intercom or signaling         3 (amber) Hold and busy indication Line 2
4 Line 2 (pick-up)                                             4 Ringing indication Line 2 [neon]
5 (spare button for intercom or signaling        5 (amber) Hold and busy indication line 3
6 Line 3 (pick-up)                                             6 Ringing indication Line 3                                     
"C'est pas une restauration, c'est une rénovation."--François Martin.

Offline Babybearjs

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Re: SK-1 Key System --NorthernTelecom
« Reply #3 on: March 26, 2016, 11:10:18 PM »
these phones are like the ITT 576/77 and the AE 87/187 phones except for the key arrangement. where these suppose to be part of  a "Convenience System"? with the Ae and ITT phones, they just used a 10VAC transformer for the lights and buzzers. are these the same?
John

Offline poplar1

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Re: SK-1 Key System --NorthernTelecom
« Reply #4 on: March 26, 2016, 11:44:27 PM »
Other than the fact that they have 3 lines, no, they are not the same. The red hold button (all the way to the left) is common for all 3 lines, and is non-locking. If a call is put on hold, the holding condition can be removed by any other SK-1 phone, or any single line phone, because the SK-1 phone senses the voltage drop when another phone or device goes off hook.

Also, in addition to the 3 C.O. lines, there is intercom path on the last amber button (locking button) if you have the correct power unit.
"C'est pas une restauration, c'est une rénovation."--François Martin.

Offline Babybearjs

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Re: SK-1 Key System --NorthernTelecom
« Reply #5 on: March 27, 2016, 09:27:44 AM »
how interesting... you know, it creates a problem..... the phones model Number.....the rotary is marked 564.... just like a normal 564...  wonder what the inside looks like???
John

Dominic_ContempraPhones

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Re: SK-1 Key System --NorthernTelecom
« Reply #6 on: April 18, 2016, 11:06:07 PM »
Yes, I have the SK-1 and the QSY3A1 power supply.  It isn't really a key system per se.  Here are some pictures ...

It's a 3-station 3-line system with neon CO powered lights that provide flutter ring indication only.  They turn off when the line is picked up.
Line in use solid and flash hold indication for each clear lamp line was indicated by the lamp to its immediate left.  Red for Line 1, 1st Amber for 2, 2nd Amber for 3.  Yes, the red hold had a lamp in it for status on Line 1.  Common Hold was RED.  Ringer could only be wired for a single line, unless external ringers were used.  No common audible.

At the same time and independent of lamp indication, one Amber key could act as a selective or all-station non-locking buzzer with the Q1-whatever buzzers, and another could act as an intercom key (locking).  If the 2nd amber was the intercom key, it could be in any indication for line 3.  If line 3 was idle, it would not light up when you pressed it down.  Users would use the non-locking buzzer key to morse-code the stations.  Everyone hears the signal if it's wired that way, but 1 buzz means station 1, 2 buzzes for 2, etc.  4 buzzes could mean everyone pick up for a conference call.  You could double or triple the config up to 9 stations off one power supply.  Everyone needed to know their code signal.

This was marketed to doctor's offices, pharmacies, small stores -- that sort of thing, where the expense of 1A2 was not warranted.  The sets did say 2565 buf the suffix code was QFAI.  Early rotary sets were spade tipped, as the QSY had screw terminal connectors.  So, you really didn't need to punch anything down.

NE did have a 3 hold 3 station set prior to SK-1 ... the 564QB.  The SK-1 sets replaced those and were manufactured from the early 70s to about 1980.

The hold, flash, and line in use indication power came from the QSY and the holding circuit was in the QSY, but the hold release was by line impedance on tip/ring.
« Last Edit: April 18, 2016, 11:47:00 PM by Dominic_ContempraPhones »

Dominic_ContempraPhones

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Re: SK-1 Key System --NorthernTelecom
« Reply #7 on: April 18, 2016, 11:07:49 PM »
Other than the fact that they have 3 lines, no, they are not the same. The red hold button (all the way to the left) is common for all 3 lines, and is non-locking. If a call is put on hold, the holding condition can be removed by any other SK-1 phone, or any single line phone, because the SK-1 phone senses the voltage drop when another phone or device goes off hook.

Also, in addition to the 3 C.O. lines, there is intercom path on the last amber button (locking button) if you have the correct power unit.

Correct ... QSY3A1 provided talk battery for an intercom.  QSY3A did not.

Dominic_ContempraPhones

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Re: SK-1 Key System --NorthernTelecom
« Reply #8 on: April 18, 2016, 11:11:23 PM »
I have never heard of or seen these before. Google found this YouTube by Shane Young which gives a couple of clues but more info still needed!

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=lhGsk8n41R4

Terry

Terry, please see my reply #6.  I laughed at Shane because he and Trevor said it was just an ordinary 2565 with two funky yellow lamps.  The interface to the power unit was female amphenol to spade lug.  I had one custom made as I'm a lousy crimper.  See the pics below.  Sonny's were Canadian, whereas mine were made for the US market (Release 1).

Dominic_ContempraPhones

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Re: SK-1 Key System --NorthernTelecom
« Reply #9 on: April 18, 2016, 11:34:18 PM »
Other than the fact that they have 3 lines, no, they are not the same. The red hold button (all the way to the left) is common for all 3 lines, and is non-locking. If a call is put on hold, the holding condition can be removed by any other SK-1 phone, or any single line phone, because the SK-1 phone senses the voltage drop when another phone or device goes off hook.

Also, in addition to the 3 C.O. lines, there is intercom path on the last amber button (locking button) if you have the correct power unit.

Yes, but 1A2 does that also ... I think!!

Offline AE_Collector

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Re: SK-1 Key System --NorthernTelecom
« Reply #10 on: April 19, 2016, 12:22:08 AM »
Yes, but 1A2 does that also ... I think!!

Yes, I would say that these more or less give the functionality of 1A2 without the need for the 1A2 equipment in the phone closet. What it doesn't give is the flexibility and expandability of a real 1A2 system. Compared to earlier 3 line / 3 hold systems this SK-1 system is a better overall system.

AE made the 187 sets that were 3 line / 3 hold with neon lamps for ringing line indicators and the hold button lit to indicate a busy line as long as the system was installed with "illumination" (a 10VAC power supply and cross connect jumpers in the phone room tying the lines together for illumination). There was no method to remove the hold placed on one set when a line was picked up on another set though you coukd talk over the holding resistors. All holds were knocked off when a handset was placed on the cradle.

Terry

Dominic_ContempraPhones

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Re: SK-1 Key System --NorthernTelecom
« Reply #11 on: April 19, 2016, 02:03:52 AM »
Yes, I would say that these more or less give the functionality of 1A2 without the need for the 1A2 equipment in the phone closet. What it doesn't give is the flexibility and expandability of a real 1A2 system. Compared to earlier 3 line / 3 hold systems this SK-1 system is a better overall system.

AE made the 187 sets that were 3 line / 3 hold with neon lamps for ringing line indicators and the hold button lit to indicate a busy line as long as the system was installed with "illumination" (a 10VAC power supply and cross connect jumpers in the phone room tying the lines together for illumination). There was no method to remove the hold placed on one set when a line was picked up on another set though you coukd talk over the holding resistors. All holds were knocked off when a handset was placed on the cradle.

Terry

For small offices only.  NE's goal was to squeeze as much as possible into one phone with operational lamp illumination on power failure.  1A2 could be wired that way also on power failures, but was kinda tricky.  SK-1 was confusing though if you were familiar with 1A2, but, at least the flasher was solid state, whereas the QUJ8, 9, and 10 KSU electromechanical interrupters sounded like my washing machine on the gentle cycle every time a line was placed on hold (if I was anywhere near it).  SK-1 worked best as a 3 station system in a small office, and the power supply could be tucked under a desk out of view near a 3 line "jack".

NE never really liked 1A2 or Touch-Tone.  Touch-Tone was analog and the Bell Labs guys made a CRITICAL error that lead to decoder misreads (which DROVE ME NUTS on custom offboard applications I was writing) -- intermodulation distortion, which didn't happen on the 1500s started happening on * on the 2500s when call feature codes came in.  So we encouraged the use of 11 as 1ESS had that as a rotary *.  The bug did not become apparent until years later -- early 80s in some places.  The harmonics were such that a * could be read as a # if there was noise on the line.  * was a mixture of 1209 and 941 Hz.  2 x 1209 - 941 = 1477.  1477 and 941 was #.

They goofed.  The minimum length of a touch-tone was 120ms on and 80ms off.  Electronic equipment could DTMF a 7 digit number in 1.4 seconds and the decoders had to get it right.  The minute the * code was put up front for block call waiting or whatever, a misread got it as # which meant ENTER, I'm done dialing.

Plus, those ferrite pot cores would drift off frequency after a while so there had to be some leeway.  Trimline used IC, and NT came up with digipulse because it wasn't cost effective to TT enable COs when DMS was around the corner.  The soft-touch pads didn't generate crisp clean on and offs.  1A2 ... the technology was certainly available in the early 60s using DTMF on a 2nd pair for call control with a DTMF receiver on each line card.  For instance, they had tone to pulse converters for SxS offices that could have activated stepping relays to swap the desired line in and out (like the line concentrators did on those 30 button Call Directors).  As only one key could be down, only one speech path to the set was necessary.  Other techniques involved frequency division multiplexing on one thicker wire vs. 50 wires.  Spaghetti was the term they used.  Everything was hard wired, and a Bell tech. had to come out every time a change was required.  They just didn't like that, so none of their TCM/TDM PBXs used touch-tone signaling internally when digital sets were connected -- it was all binary code with error detection.
« Last Edit: April 19, 2016, 02:07:43 AM by Dominic_ContempraPhones »

Offline AE_Collector

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Re: SK-1 Key System --NorthernTelecom
« Reply #12 on: April 19, 2016, 01:15:39 PM »
While the packaged size of this system was limited and thus it was best suited to small businesses of which there are lots of, the soon to follow electronic key systems would all be packaged in a similar fashion. In many cases, need another line.....replace everything!

I loved the sound of all the interrupters running in the phone rooms! Except the odd ones that made squeaking noises when running.....squeak, squeak, squeak,..

Terry

Dominic_ContempraPhones

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Re: SK-1 Key System --NorthernTelecom
« Reply #13 on: April 19, 2016, 02:50:15 PM »
While the packaged size of this system was limited and thus it was best suited to small businesses of which there are lots of, the soon to follow electronic key systems would all be packaged in a similar fashion. In many cases, need another line.....replace everything!

I loved the sound of all the interrupters running in the phone rooms! Except the odd ones that made squeaking noises when running.....squeak, squeak, squeak,..

Terry

This is where Centrex came into play.