Author Topic: Automatic Electric / Leich N802 Phone Wont Ring  (Read 1684 times)

Offline earlytorise

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Automatic Electric / Leich N802 Phone Wont Ring
« on: March 17, 2016, 12:28:35 PM »
I have a Leich Electric/ Automatic electric Rotary phone Model 803 C I did not put right model as per picture it is model 802 C it has a dial spring lock mounting on set.  I need ringer wiring as I believe it is wired for party line and would like wired ring party or pvt line. Any Ideas/

For those who answered I  will work on it today . Yes all of phone works well .[img
« Last Edit: March 22, 2016, 10:39:42 AM by earlytorise »

unbeldi

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Re: Automatic Electric / Leich N802 Phone Wont Ring
« Reply #1 on: March 17, 2016, 12:36:17 PM »
I have a Leich Electric/ Automatic electric Rotary phone Model 803 C  it has a dial spring lock mounting on set.  I need ringer wiring as I believe it is wired for party line and would like wired ring party or pvt line. Any Ideas/

Simply remove the current ringer wires from their terminal and rewire them so that you have the ringer and its ringing capacitor in series between the two line terminals.

L1--------ringer--------capacitor--------L2

Can you show a picture of the ringer, I don't know whether it has a two-winding ringer with four wires, or a single winding with two wires. But in either case, the principle of a ringing bridge is the same.

Isn't this (the 803) a Federal telephone that looks much like a WECo 302?
« Last Edit: March 17, 2016, 12:49:25 PM by unbeldi »

Offline LarryInMichigan

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Re: Automatic Electric / Leich N802 Phone Wont Ring
« Reply #2 on: March 17, 2016, 03:41:33 PM »
The FTR 803 is a bakelite phone which resembles a 302, but it had nothing to do with Leich or Automatic Electric.  I thought that Leich started manufacturing phones for Automatic Electric starting with the AE80 series.

Larry

Offline AE_Collector

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Re: Automatic Electric / Leich N802 Phone Wont Ring
« Reply #3 on: March 17, 2016, 10:02:19 PM »
I am guessing that it is the Leich version if the AE80. Pictures will confirm it. Then it will depend on whether it has the potted or printed network.

If it is effectively an AE 80 there should be lots of similar topics on here about it but we will get you going.

Terry

Offline rdelius

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Re: Automatic Electric / Leich N802 Phone Wont Ring
« Reply #4 on: March 19, 2016, 12:49:13 PM »
This is a type 80 telephone, SL ringers should be easy to find.You can try loosening the clapper spring to make it ring somewhat
« Last Edit: March 19, 2016, 01:26:10 PM by rdelius »

unbeldi

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Re: Automatic Electric / Leich N802 Phone Wont Ring
« Reply #5 on: March 19, 2016, 12:53:42 PM »
Thanks for the picture of the set.

What you have is the Leich version of the AE 80, as  Terry suspected in the previous post.

Would you mind spelling out what is written on that label on the ringer between the two coils?
From what I can make out, it says 40 or 42.  This would mean it is a frequency-selective ringer that will most likely not work on today's telephone lines, although perhaps can be made to work better by moving the clapper weight as far out as possible.
« Last Edit: March 21, 2016, 11:02:35 AM by unbeldi »

Offline AE_Collector

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Re: Automatic Electric / Leich N802 Phone Wont Ring
« Reply #6 on: March 19, 2016, 03:28:25 PM »
I am not up on exactly how Leich coded their 80's but likely the 80 is indicating the model, the -3- 2 indicates the coiled handset cord and the C indicates that it has a Numbers and Letters "Metropolitan" dial.

It is definitely a frequency ringer so making it ring is going to be a challenge though some have had good luck with modifications to the ringer itself. It will need to be wired across the line as well but that isn't the biggest problem.

Does everything else work?

Terry
« Last Edit: March 22, 2016, 11:43:30 AM by AE_Collector »

unbeldi

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Re: Automatic Electric / Leich N802 Phone Wont Ring
« Reply #7 on: March 21, 2016, 11:02:04 AM »
Trying to keep this in the spot light....

I cannot make out the type of transmission board that is installed in this set.    I know AE used several types,  which is this?

The terminals are usually numbered, but L1 and L2 may be indicated too.

The ringer assembly with its capacitor (the gray box) should have a total of four wires coming from in.

Offline AE_Collector

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Re: Automatic Electric / Leich N802 Phone Wont Ring
« Reply #8 on: March 21, 2016, 12:28:15 PM »
It has the early potted network but I cant tell if there is a manual compensator on this one or not. The potted network style were used both with and without the manual compensator. I can't recall if AE marked L1 and L2 right on the potted type network or not. They don't on all the later printed boards. Terminals 8 & 10 are Tip & Ring on all types.

Terminal 16 is a terminal to join a ringer lead to a capacitor lead. The other ringer and other ringer capacitor leads go to 8 & 10. Which color goes where doesn't really matter.

For pdf AE wiring diagrams:
http://www.classicrotaryphones.com/forum/index.php?topic=8510.0

Early N type potted manually compensated drawing below:

Terry
« Last Edit: March 21, 2016, 12:44:43 PM by AE_Collector »

unbeldi

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Re: Automatic Electric / Leich N802 Phone Wont Ring
« Reply #9 on: March 22, 2016, 11:03:38 AM »
From the new pictures, we see now that the condenser (capacitor) of the ringer has a capacitance of 0.08 F, which is used by all harmonic and synchromonic AE ringers with frequencies from 42 Hz and higher.

Without expertise it will be difficult to make it ring today, and the capacitor will need to be exchanged in any case.

I would recommend finding a straight-line ringer sold individually sometimes, but the easiest is to use an external ringer or simply a second phone on the same line.

Offline AE_Collector

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Re: Automatic Electric / Leich N802 Phone Wont Ring
« Reply #10 on: March 22, 2016, 11:40:46 AM »
Everything is working as designed, your phone company just doesn't offer 42 cycle ringing for party 5 or 6 of a 6 (or more) party line!

As Unbeldi suggests, another phone on the same line will indicate an incoming call or an extension ringer located near the Leich 80 set. A replacement AE "Straight Line" ringer could be purchased on eBay or elsewhere. Presumably a real junker AE phone could be purchased very inexpensively.

I have slightly changed the title of this topic. The N at the beginning of your midel number does indicate that yours is the first version of this model which should have a manual compensator adjustment on the base. The diagram that I posted above is the correct one. The 2 (not 3) is correct for a coil cord handset cord and there are at least a couple more badly faded digits after the 2, likely 00 which indicates a black phone. The C could be a G. If a C it indicates a letters & number dial but if it is a G it is likely indicating the ringer frequency. The ringer is typically indicated on the base with the actual frequency 2 digit number or SL for Straight Line or XX for no ringer equipped. I am quite certain that I have seen a chart somewhere assigning letter codes to the various AE ringers as well. Maybe that coding format was used by Leich Electric.

Terry

unbeldi

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Re: Automatic Electric / Leich N802 Phone Wont Ring
« Reply #11 on: March 22, 2016, 12:21:22 PM »
Everything is working as designed, your phone company just doesn't offer 42 cycle ringing for party 5 or 6 of a 6 (or more) party line!

As Unbeldi suggests, another phone on the same line will indicate an incoming call or an extension ringer located near the Leich 80 set. A replacement AE "Straight Line" ringer could be purchased on eBay or elsewhere. Presumably a real junker AE phone could be purchased very inexpensively.

I have slightly changed the title of this topic. The N at the beginning of your midel number does indicate that yours is the first version of this model which should have a manual compensator adjustment on the base. The diagram that I posted above is the correct one. The 2 (not 3) is correct for a coil cord handset cord and there are at least a couple more badly faded digits after the 2, likely 00 which indicates a black phone. The C could be a G. If a C it indicates a letters & number dial but if it is a G it is likely indicating the ringer frequency. The ringer is typically indicated on the base with the actual frequency 2 digit number or SL for Straight Line or XX for no ringer equipped. I am quite certain that I have seen a chart somewhere assigning letter codes to the various AE ringers as well. Maybe that coding format was used by Leich Electric.

Terry

I thought the letter designations by AE usually indicated the color, but I also know that color was sometimes just a number.
Usually, AE was the only of the majors to not use letter designations for ringing frequencies, at least not consistently.

cf: http://www.classicrotaryphones.com/forum/index.php?topic=11938.0

In there, I noted that only in catalog TA-57 they used letters in the ringer parts numbers, but only for some series.
For the telephone ordering codes, the frequency was stated in digits, or 'SL', as part of the entire string.


PS: Actually, nothing much appears consistent over time in AE's numbering schemes.


PS: Is the phone color turquoise ?  Letter G in TA-57 page 32.     (C is 'Dawn Grey").
« Last Edit: March 22, 2016, 12:30:52 PM by unbeldi »

Offline AE_Collector

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Re: Automatic Electric / Leich N802 Phone Wont Ring
« Reply #12 on: March 22, 2016, 12:43:35 PM »
Most commonly on the telephone bases AE stated color with by a 2 digit number but there were instances where they used a letter instead. One example that comes to mind is with 183 Space Makers.

I wondered about the C or G being a color code as I am not familiar with how Leich numbered their 80 sets but the color of this one seems to be black from a portion of the coil cord seen in one picture. Of course Color like Ringers can be different than what the base says it should be! There is potentially a 00 (black) right after the N802 and still room for. C for the dial and then the G(?) that is visible.

AE almost always used numbers (and SL or XX) for ringers in the base code but I believe I have seen instances with letters and maybe the T57 is where I recall seeing a ringer chart with letters. Will check that out.

PS: Actually, nothing much appears consistent over time in AE's numbering schemes.

That pretty much sums it up!

Terry
« Last Edit: March 22, 2016, 02:57:06 PM by AE_Collector »