Author Topic: AE 182 Starlite Problems  (Read 4214 times)

Offline b3tamax11

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AE 182 Starlite Problems
« on: May 23, 2016, 12:50:56 PM »
I have a nice forget-me-not blue AE 182 Starlite that I bought at a flea market. When I got it, it needed a new line cord (which I replaced), and it did not have a bell in the set (which I have yet to replace). I wired everything according to the wiring diagram I have attached. When the set is plugged into my line (which works with every rotary phone I own), there is no dial tone but a faint buzzing sound that goes away when I push down the hookswitch.

However, when I try to dial out with the set, I hear the pulses over the line and then I hear clear audible dial tone. It is clearly not breaking dial tone to allow me to dial out, however. At this point I am assuming the problem is one of the capacitors on the network (in which case I will order a new network), but I just want to make sure I can narrow down any other potential problems first. Attached below is a picture of the inside of the phone, and the wiring diagram I followed to get it going. I double checked all the connectors, and everything is wired properly (save for the missing bell, and the illumination which this set doesnt have).

Offline dsk

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Re: AE 182 Starlite Problems
« Reply #1 on: May 23, 2016, 02:21:13 PM »
I am not sure, but try to strap 3 and 2.

dsk

I have even got a regular New York number :-) 646 570 1796

Offline b3tamax11

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Re: AE 182 Starlite Problems
« Reply #2 on: May 23, 2016, 10:43:44 PM »
Unfortunately I don't have any jumper wires. Is there a good alternative to that?

Offline AE_Collector

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Re: AE 182 Starlite Problems
« Reply #3 on: May 24, 2016, 12:32:54 AM »
It is just to see if it makes it work properly. A piece of a paper clip or for that matter you can likely misalign the spade lugs under each of those screw terminals do that they are "inadvertently" shorted against each other.

Terry

Offline dsk

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Re: AE 182 Starlite Problems
« Reply #4 on: May 24, 2016, 03:35:21 AM »
You may also move black and green wires from handset from the terminal no 3 to the terminal no 2.
By some reason some Starlite circuits has that connection between 2 and 3 on the printed board, other just have some metallic connection between.
If the moving makes the phone work the lack of the electric connection between 2 and 3 when you have moved the wires will give you a slightly odd anti sidetone compensation, causing louder receiver volume than wanted.

dsk

I have even got a regular New York number :-) 646 570 1796

Offline b3tamax11

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Re: AE 182 Starlite Problems
« Reply #5 on: May 24, 2016, 05:34:12 PM »
So first I tried strapping 3 and 2 with some wire, to no luck. This didn't change the situation. Then I tried putting the green and black handset wires from terminal 3 to terminal 2. This also didn't change the situation. No dial tone on pickup of handset, makes dial tone when you pulses from the dial, but it won't break dial tone. I attached the 2 pictures of my attempts.

unbeldi

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Re: AE 182 Starlite Problems
« Reply #6 on: May 24, 2016, 06:32:24 PM »
I have a nice forget-me-not blue AE 182 Starlite that I bought at a flea market. When I got it, it needed a new line cord (which I replaced), and it did not have a bell in the set (which I have yet to replace). I wired everything according to the wiring diagram I have attached. When the set is plugged into my line (which works with every rotary phone I own), there is no dial tone but a faint buzzing sound that goes away when I push down the hookswitch.

However, when I try to dial out with the set, I hear the pulses over the line and then I hear clear audible dial tone. It is clearly not breaking dial tone to allow me to dial out, however. At this point I am assuming the problem is one of the capacitors on the network (in which case I will order a new network), but I just want to make sure I can narrow down any other potential problems first. Attached below is a picture of the inside of the phone, and the wiring diagram I followed to get it going. I double checked all the connectors, and everything is wired properly (save for the missing bell, and the illumination which this set doesnt have).


I think you need to more clearly establish what happens and when.
I would not attempt to make recommendations based on what I read.


there is no dial tone but a faint buzzing sound that goes away when I push down the hookswitch.


When you push the hookswitch, the switch should be disconnecting the set from the line and you should not hear anything, as you do.  So, there is no problem other than not having a clear dial tone when off-hook at this point.

What exactly happens when you take the set off-hook?  You only hear the buzz?   Do you have side tone?   Whistle or blow into the transmitter--can you hear that through the receiver?

You should test this operation more closely.  Unplug the set from the line.  Take the set off-hook and listen to the receiver.  Now plug the set back into the line.
Do you hear the buzzing immediately or do you hear dial tone first?


However, when I try to dial out with the set, I hear the pulses over the line and then I hear clear audible dial tone.

When exactly do you hear clear dial tone?
You hear dial tone after dialing one digit ?
Does it matter which digit you dial?   Do you also hear dial tone when you just tap the hook switch very quickly?



Offline b3tamax11

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Re: AE 182 Starlite Problems
« Reply #7 on: May 24, 2016, 07:50:51 PM »

I think you need to more clearly establish what happens and when.
I would not attempt to make recommendations based on what I read.


there is no dial tone but a faint buzzing sound that goes away when I push down the hookswitch.


When you push the hookswitch, the switch should be disconnecting the set from the line and you should not hear anything, as you do.  So, there is no problem other than not having a clear dial tone when off-hook at this point.

What exactly happens when you take the set off-hook?  You only hear the buzz?   Do you have side tone?   Whistle or blow into the transmitter--can you hear that through the receiver?

You should test this operation more closely.  Unplug the set from the line.  Take the set off-hook and listen to the receiver.  Now plug the set back into the line.
Do you hear the buzzing immediately or do you hear dial tone first?


However, when I try to dial out with the set, I hear the pulses over the line and then I hear clear audible dial tone.

When exactly do you hear clear dial tone?
You hear dial tone after dialing one digit ?
Does it matter which digit you dial?   Do you also hear dial tone when you just tap the hook switch very quickly?

I ran some more quick tests as you recommended.

1. When I plug the set in and pick up the handset, all that comes through is the faint buzz as I described. I tested talking, whistling or blowing into the transmitter, but I cannot hear any of it through the receiver.

2. I then unplugged the set, took the handset off the hook and listened to the receiver. I then plugged the set back into the line. The buzzing appears immediately, there is no dial tone.

3. When I turn the dial, this is the sound it makes: "Dial pulses, with dial tone in between each pulse, then solid dial tone for a few seconds after the pulses are finished." It does not matter which digit I dial, all of them do the same. Tapping the hookswitch rapidly does not do anything.

unbeldi

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Re: AE 182 Starlite Problems
« Reply #8 on: May 24, 2016, 08:27:28 PM »
When the dial is off-normal, i.e. when the dial is wound up and until it has reached is normal position again, you really should hear very little or best nothing at all.
I am not terribly familiar with the Starlites' transmission unit, but there is very little that can go wrong with it in principle. I believe the circuit behaves in principle like a WECo circuit, so that the receiver is shunted during that time.

Sometimes, however, the contacts on the shunt switch on the dial don't close properly or the contact points are oxidized permitting sound into the receiver, in which case the sound should be greatly diminished.

Can you run the same tests again, but with the transmitter element removed from the handset?

unbeldi

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Re: AE 182 Starlite Problems
« Reply #9 on: May 24, 2016, 08:35:36 PM »
A replacement ringer should be easy to find.  Just this week I saw something like 7 of them on sale for a very low price.

unbeldi

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Re: AE 182 Starlite Problems
« Reply #10 on: May 24, 2016, 08:50:42 PM »
Here is the circuit for these Starlites.
The transmission unit is what I expected.

This came from GSP AE 997-015-800 Issue 4 1978, Type 182A and 192A Starlite Telephone Sets; Shop Procedure
I think that is also the source of your wiring diagram.
« Last Edit: May 24, 2016, 08:56:31 PM by unbeldi »

Offline b3tamax11

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Re: AE 182 Starlite Problems
« Reply #11 on: May 24, 2016, 09:28:33 PM »
I removed the transmitter and ran the same tests, there was no difference. Would it really be the dial itself that causes no dial tone on pickup of the handset?

unbeldi

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Re: AE 182 Starlite Problems
« Reply #12 on: May 24, 2016, 10:15:07 PM »
I removed the transmitter and ran the same tests, there was no difference. Would it really be the dial itself that causes no dial tone on pickup of the handset?

I would not be so quick to judgement.   The dial is easy to test actually.   It appears the pulsing contacts are working just fine.   Disconnect the other two wires on terminals 2 and 4, white and red?, and observe any differences.  The telephone should work with these wires removed, they only provide protection against clicks in the receiver.

Offline b3tamax11

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Re: AE 182 Starlite Problems
« Reply #13 on: May 24, 2016, 10:43:05 PM »
I removed the White and Red Dial wires from terminals 2 and 4. On handset pickup, there is still no dial tone, just the same buzzing as before.

unbeldi

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Re: AE 182 Starlite Problems
« Reply #14 on: May 24, 2016, 10:48:30 PM »
I removed the White and Red Dial wires from terminals 2 and 4. On handset pickup, there is still no dial tone, just the same buzzing as before.

ok, the more interesting part would be what happens after dialing a number.
If that behave still the same, we know the dial was not even involved properly previously.