Author Topic: Looking for a French Phone Thomson Houston bougie candlestik diagram  (Read 1605 times)

Offline newphoneguy

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A week ago I received this Thomson-Houston Bougie Candlestick telephone I bought days ago on ebay. is in very good conditión , but is not wired. and I have a ringer box that would like to connect to this phone . I have been looking on the web for the schematics of this phone but have not found it. I will appreciate so much if anybody has it. or if anybody know where can I get it. Enclose are pictures of this phone. it is a Thomson-Houston as it is marked on the handset. Also the dial is marked on the inside with Thomson-Houston. It has all the wires inside but no one is connected and do not know how to wire it properly so I can use on my landline.

unbeldi

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Re: Looking for a French Phone Thomson Houston bougie candlestik diagram
« Reply #1 on: June 13, 2016, 09:16:17 PM »
I seem to remember having written something about this type before, and IIRC,  these have a rather simple circuit in which the transmitter is directly in series with the receiver.   Automatic Electric also used circuits like that even in the 1920s, and the dial on this, I believe, is a copy of an Automatic Electric dial of the 1920s.

Does this have a half-circle connection board in the base, similar to an AE stick?
Does the dial have three wires?
« Last Edit: June 13, 2016, 09:21:49 PM by unbeldi »

Offline newphoneguy

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Re: Looking for a French Phone Thomson Houston bougie candlestik diagram
« Reply #2 on: June 13, 2016, 09:52:02 PM »
you are right. the dial is very similar to the automatic electric type. but is marked Thomson-Houston. there are only three wires soldered on it. two on the dial contacts and only one on the shunt contacts. there is also a jumper here. and certainly it has a half circle metal connection board inside, here is a picture I take when I dissasemble it for cleaning. Appreciate so much your quckly response.

unbeldi

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Re: Looking for a French Phone Thomson Houston bougie candlestik diagram
« Reply #3 on: June 13, 2016, 10:15:08 PM »
you are right. the dial is very similar to the automatic electric type. but is marked Thomson-Houston. there are only three wires soldered on it. two on the dial contacts and only one on the shunt contacts. there is also a jumper here. and certainly it has a half circle metal connection board inside, here is a picture I take when I dissasemble it for cleaning. Appreciate so much your quckly response.

I think this is the AE circuit that may have been used in this set.
The terminal designations on your connection plate help you wire it.   P1 and P2 are the transmitter, R1 and R2 the receiver, and L1 and L2 the line connections.

Offline newphoneguy

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Re: Looking for a French Phone Thomson Houston bougie candlestik diagram
« Reply #4 on: June 13, 2016, 10:26:06 PM »
on this diagram I can not see any network coils . is it right  ? connected on this way witout any coils do not damage the receiver ? is the first Diagram I see there is not netwok coils on it.

unbeldi

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Re: Looking for a French Phone Thomson Houston bougie candlestik diagram
« Reply #5 on: June 13, 2016, 10:34:59 PM »
It doesn't have an induction coil indeed, and I don't think there is even room in the set for one.  Of course, it could be placed into the ringer box, but that would be quite a difference circuit.

I can't be certain that this is in fact the right circuit for your set.  It really depends on the type of transducer elements. I would examine the receiver and transmitter before connecting directly to the line, and perhaps do some research on them to make sure they were suitable for series connection.
I would also not connect telephones like this to a modern telephone line, it certainly contradicts Part 68 FCC regulations.

Often, I think these sets also came with an extra receiver (''mother-in-law receiver'') which was also wired in series.


PS: I believe I decided on this diagram while helping someone with a set like yours, and it was the most logical solution based on the wiring that was present. I have almost no original documentation on these set, though.
« Last Edit: June 13, 2016, 10:38:22 PM by unbeldi »

Offline Jack Ryan

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Re: Looking for a French Phone Thomson Houston bougie candlestik diagram
« Reply #6 on: June 13, 2016, 10:45:12 PM »
The phone has the wrong dial off normal contacts for a series circuit but the dial might have been changed later. Take the receiver cap off and see if the receiver is magnetic. If it is magnetic it probably uses a booster circuit, if not a series circuit. (If it is not magnetic the diaphragm will fall off when you remove the cap).

While you have the receiver cap off, check that the transmitter element is present (behind the receiver module). For some reason they often go missing.

These telephones used a separate subset.

Jack

unbeldi

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Re: Looking for a French Phone Thomson Houston bougie candlestik diagram
« Reply #7 on: June 14, 2016, 12:03:06 PM »
I agree about the wrong set of shunt springs, but what it has appears wired correctly for the purpose.  It has the jumper that was, on the later AE dials, a metal bridge plate.  The terminals are also solder types still, so not any younger.  One of them seems to never had any solder on it, so perhaps this was a replacement for a defective spring set.  Or perhaps they used the same dial for both types of circuits?

To me, the fact that the connection plate in the base has terminals designated L1 and L2, indicates that the line was connected directly inside the set, and any external subscriber set was simply a ringer box. If it had more functionality with an induction coil, the terminals would not be designated L1 and L2, likely.  Almost universally, L1 and L2 indicate direct line connection.



Offline andre_janew

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Re: Looking for a French Phone Thomson Houston bougie candlestik diagram
« Reply #8 on: June 14, 2016, 12:11:28 PM »
I never knew they made a candlestick with a handset!

Offline Matilo Telephones

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Re: Looking for a French Phone Thomson Houston bougie candlestik diagram
« Reply #9 on: June 14, 2016, 02:19:53 PM »
The French did. They adopted the handset early on. Many of their designs from the early 20th century are some form of candlestick with a handset.
Groeten,

Arwin

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Offline newphoneguy

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Re: Looking for a French Phone Thomson Houston bougie candlestik diagram
« Reply #10 on: June 14, 2016, 07:06:35 PM »
I removed the dial from the phone to take a better picture. Certainly one of the shunt contacts seems have never been soldered. only the other set of shunt contacts are used. Also I checked the receiver. and  it is not magnetic, the diaphragm falls by itself. it has the transmitter capsule on the back. but I think it is not conected in series with the receiver. I checked for  continuity with my tester and it seems to be OK without the transmitter element ˇ Is something confuse to me. I think the receiver has two coils , one for the receiver and one for the transmitter, really I do not know. Also I removed the receiver coils to look inside and I checked for continuity and seem to be OK. I used my multimeter to see the coils values and this is what I obtained. from A-B  265 ohms.   from A-C  210 ohms and from B-C 51 ohms. the receiver is conected to A and B . And the transmitter is conected to A and C on the picture I show here from the coils.

Offline rdelius

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Re: Looking for a French Phone Thomson Houston bougie candlestik diagram
« Reply #11 on: June 14, 2016, 10:06:20 PM »
As mentioned by others, this set used a series circuit similar to some AE sets. The DC current through the receiver made the coil an electromagnet for the bias to hold the diaphragm to work against so it would respond to the modulated audio you could hear.