Author Topic: Anyone have examples of original conductor/cord colors?  (Read 1225 times)

Offline cloyd

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Anyone have examples of original conductor/cord colors?
« on: June 20, 2016, 11:45:48 AM »
Hello everyone,

Thank you for reading this!  I need images of original cord colors used in our old phones.  It seems like something that should be included here.

Matt at OPW is making a "double yellow" conductor for my WE 151-AL and wants a description of the color.  I was hoping he would know.  I know that new conductors are made with original weaving equipment but are all the same original color combinations available?

I was thinking it would be a brown coat with a yellow tracer that has two yellow dashes. ----------  Is that even close?

Images of all the original colors (even if it is a reproduction), grouped by the different manufacturers, with a description of where or how it is used, would be helpful to newbies like me.

Thank you,

Tina Loyd
« Last Edit: June 20, 2016, 11:47:50 AM by cloyd »
-- I am always doing what I cannot do yet, in order to learn how to do it. - Van Gogh -- 1885

Offline Jim S.

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Re: Anyone have examples of original conductor/cord colors?
« Reply #1 on: June 20, 2016, 01:14:25 PM »
I have added traces to cloth wires by using sharpie markers. It worked pretty well on the project I was working on.

JMO,
Jim S.
You live, You learn,
You die, you forget it all.

unbeldi

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Re: Anyone have examples of original conductor/cord colors?
« Reply #2 on: June 20, 2016, 02:10:10 PM »
From a forum post, here is a view of 1933 cordage, not from a 151AL, but a 51C, which also has a five-fold harness (D5B).

Seen are single white, yellow, red, green, blue and double red and blue conductors.


From: http://www.classicrotaryphones.com/forum/index.php?topic=12355.msg130377#msg130377

The double yellow cord can be identified in this attached picture of the switch rack, from the same set:
« Last Edit: June 20, 2016, 02:15:05 PM by unbeldi »

unbeldi

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Re: Anyone have examples of original conductor/cord colors?
« Reply #3 on: June 20, 2016, 02:21:46 PM »
I found another pic of the transmitter wires, with the double yellow in better view.

Offline cloyd

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Re: Anyone have examples of original conductor/cord colors?
« Reply #4 on: June 26, 2016, 01:39:49 PM »
Unbeldi,
I used your great pictures to label each conductor the best that I could.  This was helpful for a beginner like me to see.

Do you know if these color-coded conductors are available as reproductions anywhere?  Matt at OPW said that the YY conductor to the transmitter was usually green. Is it green because the double yellow isn't available anymore?

The transmitter picture (from my 151-AL) shows a special connection for a pin.  I think you mentioned that the polarity doesn't matter in the 151 but perhaps it does in a 51C?

Thank you,
-- I am always doing what I cannot do yet, in order to learn how to do it. - Van Gogh -- 1885

unbeldi

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Re: Anyone have examples of original conductor/cord colors?
« Reply #5 on: June 26, 2016, 02:25:17 PM »
In general the transmitter RECEIVER conductors were green and white on the original "simple" desk stands, the 20AL, 40AL, 50AL, and 51AL.
For the upgrades, as well as other modifications, colors often changed, depending on the designations of the hook switch contacts, so that a YY terminal would have a Yellow-Yellow conductor.  Some even had two Y-Y conductors, because the desk stand actually had two YY terminals.  You have to go through the BSPs and decide what you want to reproduce, depending on the contacts that are actually present in your set.   In general a green wire would not be connected to a YY terminal, or vice-versa.

As far as I know, OPW is the only source of reproduction cords using authentic weaving machines.

Polarity does not matter for the electrical function of a transmitter.  It matters only in the procedures used to be consistent in assembly, so that a new technician always saw the same pattern, and always had to perform the same task, just like an assembly line, even it it wasn't a line.  That pin loop was on there because many desk stands onto which the transmitter was installed, still had a good tip-terminated wire for that function, which did not need to be replaced. But those disappeared increasingly during the 1930s, and when wiring did have to be replaced, they used the new cords with spade tips.   My 51C was rebuilt in 1933 with new cordage. It actually was converted from a 51AL at that time.

What that means is that you can't just wire every desk stand the very same way.  It was not constant in time, as always, materials and procedures evolved.  This is why I would recommend to learn the principles of operation of a  telephone, rather than rely on colored drawings, and pictures of existing wiring. I think the "Easy Wiring Diagrams" can be rather misleading for novices, because the colors don't always match, they can only represent a snapshot of history, whereas learning the principle is timeless, and pretty much the same no matter the shape of the telephone.
« Last Edit: June 26, 2016, 03:44:24 PM by unbeldi »

Offline poplar1

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Re: Anyone have examples of original conductor/cord colors?
« Reply #6 on: June 26, 2016, 03:42:30 PM »
The pins in your photo  be the kind used on receiver cords for receivers such as the Western Elecfric No. 122, with exposed binding posts. 143 and 144 WE receivers are compatible with either pins or spade tips.

The pin for WE transmitters are much shorter, and rather than being crimped on as the pictured  ones,  the wire it s soldered on the end for the transmitter.
"C'est pas une restauration, c'est une rénovation."--François Martin.

Offline cloyd

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Re: Anyone have examples of original conductor/cord colors?
« Reply #7 on: June 27, 2016, 10:26:49 AM »
Thanks unbeldi!

I will look for an image of the proper pins to replace the one that I found.

You crossed out receiver and wrote transmitter.  Can you give me a hint as to where I made the mistake?

Matt at OPW says that they don't stock double yellow and double blue but they could custom make it for me.  IMHO, I think that if they made it people would buy it.

Opinions?

Tina
-- I am always doing what I cannot do yet, in order to learn how to do it. - Van Gogh -- 1885

unbeldi

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Re: Anyone have examples of original conductor/cord colors?
« Reply #8 on: June 27, 2016, 10:52:11 AM »
I crossed out transmitter and wrote receiver, because I wasn't thinking clearly when I first wrote, and since it was possible someone had already read the wrong word, I left it crossed out, as an alert in case someone rereads the statement.

I am not aware that green cords were used for transmitters.   Even the early sticks (20,40) used with a 315-type subset used double yellow, as far as I have read.

I can't speak to what people would buy if available, but it sure seems reasonable.   Making one 10 inch cord of course seems illogical, and terribly expensive.  My guess is that some of the other retailers of parts would buy some too.