Poll

Which handset would look best on this B1?

Ivory F1
4 (50%)
Brown F1
2 (25%)
Black E1
2 (25%)
Other
0 (0%)

Total Members Voted: 8

Voting closed: August 01, 2016, 02:18:02 PM

Author Topic: Intriguing Phone  (Read 1534 times)

Offline Doug Rose

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Intriguing Phone
« on: July 15, 2016, 06:09:22 PM »
This painted B1 looks t have really nice paint, hopefully it will clean it well. I would put a brown WE Bakelite handset on it.

The intrigue is the dial. Is it the rare 4J (no I do not own one) or a 5H with a clear finger wheel.   We shall see....Doug

http://www.ebay.com/itm/262515857287?
« Last Edit: July 15, 2016, 07:45:09 PM by TelePlay »
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unbeldi

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Re: Intriguing Phone
« Reply #1 on: July 15, 2016, 06:36:19 PM »
The finger wheel and number plate are from 1953 or later.

Offline Sargeguy

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Re: Intriguing Phone
« Reply #2 on: July 15, 2016, 06:44:15 PM »
I agree-that looks like a #6 fingerstop
Greg Sargeant
Providence, RI
TCI /ATCA #4409

Offline poplar1

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Re: Intriguing Phone
« Reply #3 on: July 15, 2016, 06:51:20 PM »
One reason that 4J dials are difficult to find is that they were apparently made for only about a year (1937). Before 1937, B1s had matching (painted) finger wheels on 2H-type dials, and D1s had 4H-type dials with matching finger wheels: For example, the 4HB-4 dial had an ivory case and painted ivory finger wheel. It was only in 1937 that color D1s started having 4J dials with stainless steel (unpainted) finger wheels and white cases. And only a small number of D1s were made after 1937 (only black '38 and '39 D1s reported so far).

Painted metal ivory, old rose, gray-green, pekin red, and blue color 302s had 5J dials, also with stainless steel finger wheels and white cases until at least IV 40. Black metal 302s, as well as the painted "metallic color" 302s had 5Hs with matching finger wheels. Clear finger wheels for 5J dials were introduced only about the time of the switch from metal to plastic housings for the 5 non-metallic color 302s ca. 1941.

This particular dial has a post-1944 finger stop (short) and a late 1951 or later transparent finger wheel (small hole between 9 and 0). Perhaps dates on the cord restraints will give an idea when the B1 was remanufactured. I think that by 1949, all color 302 -- including metallic colors --reissued from the repair shops had clear finger wheels. If this B1 was reissued in 1952 or later, then it's possible that they followed the same BSRS (Bell System Repair Specs) so far as replacing the finger wheel. However, the case of the dial, though difficult to see in the photos provided, may be painted to match the phone. "J" dials usually have white cases.

404 237- (formerly CEdar 7-, formerly EXchange) is from what my grandfather called the "steam heat section" of Atlanta, that is, Buckhead. So it's not surprising that a color phone might have been used there, even with the $7.50 one-time charge for color.
« Last Edit: July 15, 2016, 07:01:57 PM by poplar1 »
"C'est pas une restauration, c'est une rénovation."--François Martin.

unbeldi

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Re: Intriguing Phone
« Reply #4 on: July 15, 2016, 07:17:01 PM »
This particular dial has a post-1944 finger stop (short) and a late 1951 or later transparent finger wheel (small hole between 9 and 0).

The finger wheel with the pinhole for pushing down the latching tab did not appears until December 1952 and is found on new 5Js only in December 1952, as the 5J dial was discontinued by the end of that month.  Apparently the factory had enough stock for producing sets until April or May 1953. All sets of 1953 with 5J dials had dials marked 12/53. By May, all sets used 6D dials.


Offline poplar1

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Re: Intriguing Phone
« Reply #5 on: July 15, 2016, 07:32:00 PM »
The finger wheel with the pinhole for pushing down the latching tab did not appears until December 1952 and is found on new 5Js only in December 1952, as the 5J dial was discontinued by the end of that month.  Apparently the factory had enough stock for producing sets until April or May 1953. All sets of 1953 with 5J dials had dials marked 12/53. By May, all sets used 6D dials.


You probably have more 5J dials than I do, and I hesitate to open the few color 302s I have to check dates.
However, the P-344837 transparent finger wheel, with hole for a stiff wire or paper clip to remove it, is shown in Addendum  C30.011, Issue 1, 12-17-51. The complete assembly, which includes the P-347999 finger wheel clamp, is coded P43A212.
12 months seems a rather long delay if the P-344837 was introduced only in Dec. 1952.
"C'est pas une restauration, c'est une rénovation."--François Martin.

unbeldi

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Re: Intriguing Phone
« Reply #6 on: July 15, 2016, 07:58:40 PM »
Well, I think the pinhole wheel was developed not for the 5J dial, but for the 7C dial on the 500 set.  There was no need for it until 1953.

Would you scan the 1951 version of  C30.011 ?


PS:  The use of the new wheel on 5J sets in December 1952 required the design of a new mounting star for the 5J, which appears to have been a temporary solution, and was referred to as the intermediate type, until the final mounting star for the 6D dial became available.  I would say that if the new FW was designed for the 5J and its successor, the 6D, then they would have designed a permanent solution immediately.
« Last Edit: July 15, 2016, 08:19:23 PM by unbeldi »

Offline poplar1

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Re: Intriguing Phone
« Reply #7 on: July 15, 2016, 08:20:10 PM »
Well, I think the pinhole wheel was developed not for the 5J dial, but for the 7C dial on the 500 set.  There was no need for it until 1953.

The finger wheel for the 7C dial was actually part no. P-19B524.
"C'est pas une restauration, c'est une rénovation."--François Martin.

unbeldi

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Re: Intriguing Phone
« Reply #8 on: July 15, 2016, 08:22:14 PM »
The finger wheel for the 7C dial was actually part no. P-19B524.

Yes, but that was a year later.

Offline poplar1

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Re: Intriguing Phone
« Reply #9 on: July 15, 2016, 08:47:28 PM »
Would you scan the 1951 version of  C30.011 ?

I am referring to ADDENDUM C30.011, Issue 1, 12-17-51.
"This addendum supplements Section C30.011, Issue 5" which is dated 12-1-49.
I don't know the date for Section C30.011 Issue 6, but it would probably be 1952 or later.
"C'est pas une restauration, c'est une rénovation."--François Martin.

Offline Doug Rose

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Re: Intriguing Phone
« Reply #10 on: July 30, 2016, 04:31:50 PM »
I received the phone and it was a #6 dial. I spent a few hours cleaning off the sh*t that was on and it and wad amazed at what was underneath.

Brasso is just wonderful for this. Slow but sure. My fingers are sore.

Ivory handset. Brown Handset of a Black E1, what should I do....Doug
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Offline compubit

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Re: Intriguing Phone
« Reply #11 on: July 30, 2016, 05:39:00 PM »
I personally like the ivory.

Jim
A phone phanatic since I was less than 2 (thanks to Fisher Price); collector since a teenager; now able to afford to play!
Favorite Phone: Western Electric Trimline - it just feels right holding it up to my face!

Offline TelePlay

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Re: Intriguing Phone
« Reply #12 on: July 30, 2016, 05:40:12 PM »
I like them both . . .      ::)

Started a poll on that question for this topic so cast a vote to help Doug out.
« Last Edit: July 30, 2016, 05:43:45 PM by TelePlay »
            John . . .

              

Offline b3tamax11

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Re: Intriguing Phone
« Reply #13 on: July 31, 2016, 02:06:49 PM »
The brown contrasts very nicely with the paint and matches the brown felted base plate nicely, id say go for that one!

Offline TelePlay

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Re: Intriguing Phone
« Reply #14 on: July 31, 2016, 02:23:19 PM »
We have a winner, the poll is now closed. Doug said he will be going with the Ivory handset, which was leading in the poll (thanks to those who took the time to vote their opinion.

With the Ivory handset, it reminds me of my gold speckled D1 posted somewhere on the forum, which I found that way and always liked so Doug's choice turned out well, at least in my and 3 others humble opinions. The base sure looks great and quite a bit different that the eBay listing photo.
            John . . .