Author Topic: Tell me what I bought?  (Read 1292 times)

Offline Pourme

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Tell me what I bought?
« on: September 06, 2016, 03:27:42 PM »
This WE wall phone caught my eye on EBAY. The bid at the time was $9.99. I bid $11.00 and won the bid uncontested a week later for $10.49 + $11.70 shipping. I have a 500 "birthday phone" dated 9/52, but according to some of the auction pics I suspected this one may be a birthday wall phone for me. It has a broken vent on one side but otherwise is undamaged but in need of a good cleaning. The pictures included document the dates on the phone. What would you call the official date of this phone? There is a 9/52 date present on the inside of the base plate, as well as other dates on other components.  Is 9/52 a referb date? What is the model of this phone? 554?
« Last Edit: September 06, 2016, 03:30:20 PM by Pourme »
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Online oldguy

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Re: Tell me what I bought?
« Reply #1 on: September 06, 2016, 04:22:55 PM »
Nice phone for a nice price Benny. It looks like a WE 354 to me.
« Last Edit: September 06, 2016, 04:25:06 PM by oldguy »
Gary

Offline Pourme

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Re: Tell me what I bought?
« Reply #2 on: September 06, 2016, 04:32:02 PM »
Thanks, oldguy....I'm tickled with it! I expect you are right about it being a 354.
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unbeldi

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Re: Tell me what I bought?
« Reply #3 on: September 06, 2016, 04:47:15 PM »
354CR-3

It was indeed made originally in September 1952 or shortly after, but it has seen the refurbishing shops at least once in 1958 having had the ringer and dial replaced (see ringer date and the lubrication date on the dial governor).  There should be a date also on the handset cord ends, likely the handset was simply replaced at that time too with a refurbished unit.

Offline Pourme

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Re: Tell me what I bought?
« Reply #4 on: September 06, 2016, 05:16:27 PM »
354CR-3

It was indeed made originally in September 1952 or shortly after, but it has seen the refurbishing shops at least once in 1958 having had the ringer and dial replaced (see ringer date and the lubrication date on the dial governor).  There should be a date also on the handset cord ends, likely the handset was simply replaced at that time too with a refurbished unit.

Thanks for verifying that! I now have another birthday phone, wall model! The range of dates involved made me wonder. So they would source a older dial and use it on a phone that was newer than the dial? Interesting. The cord is 1952. Would a straight cord be the best guess at being the correct cord?

Thanks again, unbeldi!
Benny

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Offline Ktownphoneco

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Re: Tell me what I bought?
« Reply #5 on: September 06, 2016, 06:15:42 PM »
I always get a chuckle out of the dial lubrication date stamp on the top of the dial's brass governor drum whenever I see one.      I've had several over the years, and I immediately think of BSP 028-300-701 and sub-section "2.02", quote ....  " Lubrication:   The dials shall not be lubricated.   Dials which require lubrication shall be replaced "  ... unquote.
BSP page attached in jpeg format, subsection 2.02 outlined in red.

Jeff Lamb

Offline Pourme

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Re: Tell me what I bought?
« Reply #6 on: September 06, 2016, 06:18:28 PM »
I always get a chuckle out of the dial lubrication date stamp on the top of the dial's brass governor drum whenever I see one.      I've had several over the years, and I immediately think of BSP 028-300-701 and sub-section "2.02", quote ....  " Lubrication:   The dials shall not be lubricated.   Dials which require lubrication shall be replaced "  ... unquote.
BSP page attached in jpeg format, subsection 2.02 outlined in red.

Jeff Lamb

I didn't know that...Interesting
Benny

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unbeldi

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Re: Tell me what I bought?
« Reply #7 on: September 06, 2016, 06:30:39 PM »
Thanks for verifying that! I now have another birthday phone, wall model! The range of dates involved made me wonder. So they would source a older dial and use it on a phone that was newer than the dial? Interesting. The cord is 1952. Would a straight cord be the best guess at being the correct cord?

Thanks again, unbeldi!

Having a coiled cord in 1952 is quite reasonable. By that time many black 302 sets were built and refurbished with coiled cords. Since it has the original date on it I would not change it, unless it's defective.
Remanufactured parts, such as dials, handset, etc should have had specs very close to new parts at the time. Parts and phones were made with a long service life by design, so when the dial was replaced the exact date on it makes no difference.  The set may also have been initially manual, without dial. There is no way to tell, because the model number 354A vs. 354C was never stamped anywhere.

Offline poplar1

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Re: Tell me what I bought?
« Reply #8 on: September 06, 2016, 06:34:37 PM »
Jeff, the BSPs were written for techs in the field. The BSRS (Bell System Repair Specs) were used in the Western Electric Repair Shops at the Distributing Houses.

A friend who worked at the WE Atlanta Repair Shop told me that if they didn't stamp the L and date on the dials when they lubricated them, the workers would get written up (demerits). That's because the next time the dials were returned they might get relubricated unnecessarily.
"C'est pas une restauration, c'est une rénovation."--François Martin.

unbeldi

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Re: Tell me what I bought?
« Reply #9 on: September 06, 2016, 06:43:17 PM »
I always get a chuckle out of the dial lubrication date stamp on the top of the dial's brass governor drum whenever I see one.      I've had several over the years, and I immediately think of BSP 028-300-701 and sub-section "2.02", quote ....  " Lubrication:   The dials shall not be lubricated.   Dials which require lubrication shall be replaced "  ... unquote.
BSP page attached in jpeg format, subsection 2.02 outlined in red.

Jeff Lamb

That statement only means that this was not a procedure that an installer or technician should perform in the field.  Rather he should install a new dial and return the old one to the service center.
Other dial BSPs of the 1950s, also include that statement.

The No. 6 dials were not intended to be serviced anymore at all, their speed could also not be adjusted anymore.


Offline Ktownphoneco

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Re: Tell me what I bought?
« Reply #10 on: September 06, 2016, 07:03:45 PM »
Ok.    I didn't know that either, ( "Pourme" move over one seat ).      It does make sense though.    Field "techs" wouldn't really be in a position to do that out of a service truck, or on and the customer's kitchen table.    Aside from out and out damage, I run into dials in one of two conditions, oiled and dirty, and totally without oil and reasonably clean, especially if it's been equipped with a dust gasket under the number plate.    After reading that subsection years ago, I've always wondered where the oil came from, because a good number, appear to have been "untouched" for a long time.

Thanks to both of you for bringing me up to speed on that Bell System directive and it's "true" meaning.

Jeff
     

Offline poplar1

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Re: Tell me what I bought?
« Reply #11 on: September 06, 2016, 07:32:24 PM »
The cord is 1952. `

Is the cord restraint marked "H3AF" or something else? I'm surprised that they didn't replace the cord in 1958.
"C'est pas une restauration, c'est une rénovation."--François Martin.

Offline poplar1

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Re: Tell me what I bought?
« Reply #12 on: September 06, 2016, 08:39:33 PM »
The cord is 1952. Would a straight cord be the best guess at being the correct cord?
Having a coiled cord in 1952 is quite reasonable. By that time many black 302 sets were built and refurbished with coiled cords. Since it has the original date on it I would not change it, unless it's defective.

There was originally a one-time charge, something like $1.50, for a "spring" or coiled cord.
I don't think that in 1952, coiled cords were installed either in the factory or in the repair shops. Just like long cords, they would have been installed in the field, if the customer agreed to the additional charge:

                Note: At certain locations the use of a retractile hand
                set cord with this set may have advantages. The retrac-
                tile cord should, however, be installed only upon proper
                authorization.


              Section C32.509, Issue 3, March, 1953
              Telephone Sets, 354, 356 and 357 Types

By March, 1953, new 354 sets were already being assembled with 6A dials and F1G handsets. The F1G includes the neoprene H3AG straight cord.

« Last Edit: September 06, 2016, 08:41:37 PM by poplar1 »
"C'est pas une restauration, c'est une rénovation."--François Martin.

Offline Babybearjs

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Re: Tell me what I bought?
« Reply #13 on: September 07, 2016, 02:27:36 PM »
Look on Ebay for a #228 Modular plate... its the adapter plate to make the phone modular and be able to plug it into a existing wall jack.... I saw 1 or 2 on Ebay last week.... they come and go.... you can also purchase them from www.phonecoinc.com if Ebay does have any.....
John

Offline Brinybay

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Re: Tell me what I bought?
« Reply #14 on: September 11, 2016, 12:08:55 AM »
The dial is a month older than the 49-500 in the Seattle Museum:  http://www.classicrotaryphones.com/forum/index.php?topic=2689.msg36842#msg36842
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