Author Topic: Help to install RotaTone  (Read 1909 times)

Offline hotrodjohn71

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Help to install RotaTone
« on: October 02, 2016, 07:21:45 PM »
Hello group,
I am hoping I am posting this in the correct Category. If not, please let me know and I will re-post.
I need a little help in two things. First in identifying the components in my phone, and then installing my rotatone unit.Thanks to some help from someone on another thread, I apparently have parts from both Automatic Electric Inc and ITT.
Knowing which components I have will make it easier to install the rotatone since they have diagrams for many different phone styles. Better yet, if anyone has a diagram showing me exactly how to hook up the wires on my phone, I would appreciate it. I have looked over the rotatone instructions on the OldPhoneguy site, and there are several different diagrams and several different phone Styles. Its kind of complicated. I can solder, change components, check resistances and test for shorts+ basic electronic stuff.
Has anyone worked on a phone setup like mine. I believe it came from PhoneCo and is a collection of various different phone components. I really like the phone and would also like to install the polarity device that comes with the Rotatone.

Just need a little help, thanks
« Last Edit: October 02, 2016, 07:44:45 PM by hotrodjohn71 »

Offline rdelius

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Re: Help to install RotaTone
« Reply #1 on: October 02, 2016, 08:19:48 PM »
Your paystation is from phoneco.The upper housing is an AE ,the back and coin vault are reproduction and will fit Grey and AE parts.You might search the forum for a LPB 82-55 for an origional example.At least the coin tracks and hopper are origional.The Itt network was added
« Last Edit: October 02, 2016, 08:26:47 PM by rdelius »

Offline hotrodjohn71

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Re: Help to install RotaTone
« Reply #2 on: October 02, 2016, 08:55:49 PM »
Thank you rdelius for your reply and info. I will search that part.
I have been studying these diagrams from the Rotatone installation PDF and I'm beginning to think I might be able to pull this mod off although its a little challenging being a locomotive machinist.
I have a question. If you look at the photo I Shared with the Red Dot, are those wires connecting or crossing over non connected.
Also, what is a shunt or what does it look like. I see the Rotatone mod has 2 shunts removed.
Thanks for bearing with me

Offline rdelius

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Re: Help to install RotaTone
« Reply #3 on: October 02, 2016, 09:49:15 PM »
Because the paystation has been rewired and converted,i cannot guess what was done.I would try a 500 set diagram and remove the frills such as the rec shunt when hung up and possibly one of the line switches .You might have to add the strap on the dial (one side of pulse to shunt)  if it was cut

Offline poplar1

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Re: Help to install RotaTone
« Reply #4 on: October 02, 2016, 10:09:37 PM »
Re red dot: they are crossing over; otherwise, you would be shorting out one of the 4 diodes in the polarity guard. Are you installing a polarity guard? I don't believe that it is part of the Rotatone unit. Rather, oldphoneworks advises installing a polarity guard only if you are selling the phone or don't know the polarity of your own line at the wall jack.

Arwin is the expert on these; perhaps he can talk you through it. Make sure you determine which side of the line is positive and which is negative. Normally, the red line cord wire would be negative (- 48 VDC with the phone hung up), but it depends on your line, your wiring of jacks, and which way phoneco installed the plug when they assembled the phone. Also, write down (and take pictures) where any wires are connected before you disconnect them.

It appears that you may be disconnecting all 4 dial wires at the ITT network. The existing 4 rotary dial wires in your phone are extended to the backplate of the phone via the silver cord from the upper housing (where the dial and coin chute are located ) to the modular jack that is attached to the backplate.  You'll have to figure out which of the 4 wires are the dial pulsing contacts; these are the ones that will show normally closed with your meter (when the dial is idle), then they will open and close corresponding to the number dialed; for example, they will open and close 10 times if you dial a 0, 3 times if you dial a 3, etc.

The top diagram shows two shunts: one that shorts out the transmitter and one that shorts out the receiver. These are the contacts on the back of the dial that are normally open, and they close for the duration of dial operation. Only one set of shunt contacts is being used in your phone (since there are only 4 wires going from the upper housing to the backplate); these are probably PRESENTLY connected to R and GN on the ITT network (to short out the receiver). You may want to look on the back of the dial to see if there is a strap between the pulsing contacts and the shunt contacts; many Automatic Electric dials have that strap from the factory, but I don't know if phoneco left the strap on. If there is no strap, then you can use either one of the shunt contacts to connect to the brown Rotatone wire, and the other shunt contact would connect to the pink (or white) rotatone wire. The pink or white Rotatone wire also connects to one of the dial pulse wires. The other dial pulse wire connects to the orange Rotatone wire.

Follow the incoming line from the wall. May be going to L1 and L2 on the ITT network. One side of the line is going through the hookswitch and the other side is connected directly to the network input (C or RR). Orange-red Rotatone wire (+) will connect AFTER the hookswitch; i.e., it will be connected only when the phone is off-hook. The blue Rotatone wire (-) will connect directly to the side of the line that is not interrupted by the hookswitch that hangs up the phone. YOU NEED TO MAKE SURE THAT THE POSITIVE SIDE OF THE LINE ("tip")  GOES TO THE HOOKSWITCH AND THE NEGATIVE SIDE ("ring") IS THE SIDE THAT IS NOT SWITCHED. If they are reversed in your phone, go ahead and rearrange the red and green incoming wires from the wall jack.

The diagram is oversimplified since it does not include the (ITT) network. I also don't see any mention of the 150 ohm resistor in the instructions online. The 150 ohm resistor, or the zener diode, apparently connects where the two dial pulse wires originally connected. Did they provide another diagram, say, of a 500 set?

If anyone is familiar with these, please check the above comments for accuracy. I am trying to follow the limited diagrams provided by opw, but I've never bought one of these units.

This all depends on the diagram showing the dial interrupting the (-) line wire and the hookswitch interrupting the (+) line wire as presently wired (without Rotatone). It's quite possible that in the payphone, the hookswitch and dial pulse contacts are in series on the SAME side of the line. It's getting too late to figure this out, but perhaps this last point is not significant since the dial pulse contacts will no longer be connected to the line, but rather to the Rotatone.



« Last Edit: October 02, 2016, 11:09:20 PM by poplar1 »
"C'est pas une restauration, c'est une rénovation."--François Martin.

Offline hotrodjohn71

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Re: Help to install RotaTone
« Reply #5 on: October 03, 2016, 01:39:01 PM »
It appears that I might be asking for help on this mod in vain. I received a message from a guy at Oldphoneguy.com, the guys who sell the rotatone and after seeing the picture of the device, he said it was not a v2 which is what I believe to be whats needed to accomplish tone dialing on the dreaded ATT Uverse Voip. I got the rotatone and another extra from a lot of phone stuff on ebay. the seller said it was indeed a v2 but just in a different housing. The Oldphoneguy also said it looks like a model for New Zealand. if thats right, it wont work for me. considering the complexity of my phone and the complexity of the mod, it might be in my best intrest to just get a Dialgizmo and plug and play. If I had a solid installation chart for my phone setup with step by step instructions, I could do it no problem.
« Last Edit: October 03, 2016, 01:41:03 PM by hotrodjohn71 »

Offline 19and41

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Re: Help to install RotaTone
« Reply #6 on: October 05, 2016, 08:17:08 PM »
The Dialgizmo was the route I took, also,  That also allows you to use more than one phone with the converter.  Bear in mind that the Memory dial and #&* functions may not work with it, only the digit conversion.
"Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic."
— Arthur C. Clarke

Offline hotrodjohn71

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Re: Help to install RotaTone
« Reply #7 on: October 21, 2016, 08:48:13 PM »
Thanks 19and41,
I just got my Dialgizmo, It works great and I like that I can use multiple phones on it.
Thanks for everyone's help and advice!

Offline 19and41

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Re: Help to install RotaTone
« Reply #8 on: October 21, 2016, 09:10:58 PM »
Are the #* and memory dialing working?
"Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic."
— Arthur C. Clarke

Offline hotrodjohn71

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Re: Help to install RotaTone
« Reply #9 on: May 19, 2017, 05:43:56 PM »
Hi 19and41, sorry to take so long on the reply. The # and * function do not seem to work. I am working with an ATT U-verse VoIP. I am able to use multiple rotary dial units with the single dialgizmo unit. I don't concern too much about the # and *, I'm just glad to be able to dial out and it works well.  :)
« Last Edit: May 19, 2017, 05:46:18 PM by hotrodjohn71 »

Offline 19and41

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Re: Help to install RotaTone
« Reply #10 on: May 19, 2017, 05:59:38 PM »
I just keep my cordless phone on another line and use it for my #&* navigating.
"Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic."
— Arthur C. Clarke