Poll

What do you think the Reserve is on this auction?

$1,000 to $1,499
0 (0%)
$1,500 to $1,999
1 (5.3%)
$2,000 to $2,499
3 (15.8%)
$2,500 to $2,999
1 (5.3%)
$3,000 to $3,499
3 (15.8%)
$3,500 to $3,999
0 (0%)
$4,000 to $4,999
2 (10.5%)
$5,000 to $6,000
7 (36.8%)
Over $6,000
2 (10.5%)

Total Members Voted: 19

Voting closed: October 23, 2016, 11:05:12 AM

Author Topic: Very nice WE 1930s Clear 302 Prototype for sale on eBay  (Read 2424 times)

Offline Jim Stettler

  • Global Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3710
Re: Very nice WE 1930s Clear 302 Prototype for sale on eBay
« Reply #15 on: October 17, 2016, 09:57:43 PM »
There are multiple images of the 1939 worlds fair set and the extra receiver in the cited photo archive. If someone wants to pull them out and post them it would be nice. 
search american telephone and telegraph.

Thanks,
Jim S.
You live, You learn,
You die, you forget it all.

Offline jsowers

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1948
Re: Very nice WE 1930s Clear 302 Prototype for sale on eBay
« Reply #16 on: October 17, 2016, 10:01:23 PM »
Here is a link to voice mirror.
The "listen In" receivers are visible in front of the phones.
http://digitalcollections.nypl.org/items/5e66b3e8-b049-d471-e040-e00a180654d7#/?uuid=5e66b3e8-b049-d471-e040-e00a180654d7



http://digitalcollections.nypl.org/items/5e66b3e8-9334-d471-e040-e00a180654d7

Funny, the 302 the lady is holding is black. I do see the clear listening devices and the girl on the clear 302 (posted below).
Jonathan

Offline jsowers

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1948
Re: Very nice WE 1930s Clear 302 Prototype for sale on eBay
« Reply #17 on: October 17, 2016, 10:14:10 PM »
Thanks, Jim, for the link to the NY Public Library.

There were two booths in the AT&T exhibit demonstrating toll calls on a stage with an audience. This is where Lucy was sitting when they took the picture--the left booth. You can see they have the same framing of the glass.

Here is the link to the Library picture.

http://digitalcollections.nypl.org/items/5e66b3e9-23e8-d471-e040-e00a180654d7
Jonathan

Offline jsowers

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1948
Re: Very nice WE 1930s Clear 302 Prototype for sale on eBay
« Reply #18 on: October 17, 2016, 10:41:13 PM »
Here are six more pictures from the NY Public Library collection. There's a light control switchboard with a clear handset and there's one of a woman who looks a lot like actress Dorothy Lamour, but I'm not too sure. Also a couple shots showing the separate clear earpiece Jim mentioned.
Jonathan

Offline poplar1

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 6113
  • 1051-AL
Re: Very nice WE 1930s Clear 302 Prototype for sale on eBay
« Reply #19 on: October 17, 2016, 11:29:03 PM »
The base is also interesting. It looks 1936-1937 with riveted feet, early 101a, early ringer mount, but the base also has a capacitor boss, which I thought didn't appear till 1938. Very cool.

Black 302s reported with the one oval boss for the condenser have assembly dates between
11-37 and 8-38. Your 302 was the latest reported with small plungers -- 12-37.
"C'est pas une restauration, c'est une rénovation."--François Martin.

Offline TelePlay

  • Global Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 7329
  • Character is Fate
    • . . . the times they been a'changing
Re: Very nice WE 1930s Clear 302 Prototype for sale on eBay
« Reply #20 on: October 18, 2016, 03:35:54 AM »
Looking at the phone in this image (which seems to be taken in the same booth in which Lucy was sitting)



and comparing it to the only similar side photo in the Auction Contest photos, this subject phone may be a prototype created before the production run of 25, pre-dates the special production run. This is based on a comparison of the plunger which seem to be different in the contest phone that the one in this image. This image has long black plungers where the contest phone was short black plungers on top of a brass internal plunger "extension."

Then again, I may be wrong. It is a fuzzy picture.
            John . . .

              

Offline WEBellSystemChristian

  • Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3468
  • Grandpa's 1955 Western Electric 500
Re: Very nice WE 1930s Clear 302 Prototype for sale on eBay
« Reply #21 on: October 18, 2016, 09:15:02 AM »
This set was made after the D97464; this one has a handset cord exit hole. The D97464's handset cord was fed through the rear line cord exit.

Still, this one has the slots in the base and housing, details of a pre-production 302. It also has an early 5H or later 4H, with the tighter-curved fingerstop (may have been added later). We also can't forget the pre-production handset and vented cradle (also not a feature of a D97464).
Christian Petterson

"Whether you think you can or think you can't, you're right" -Henry Ford

Offline rdelius

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1948
Re: Very nice WE 1930s Clear 302 Prototype for sale on eBay
« Reply #22 on: October 18, 2016, 09:45:29 AM »
How do the details of this set compare to  the bakelite prototype 302?.Sometimes molds were tested with clear plastic to check how everything fit together.Everything looks to early to have any relationship to the 39 fair

unbeldi

  • Guest
Re: Very nice WE 1930s Clear 302 Prototype for sale on eBay
« Reply #23 on: October 18, 2016, 10:31:15 AM »
How do the details of this set compare to  the bakelite prototype 302?.Sometimes molds were tested with clear plastic to check how everything fit together.Everything looks to early to have any relationship to the 39 fair

I think you are right. I do believe this is what this is.
The World's Fair telephone shows no sound slots ("vents") under the cradle in one of the pictures, yet this eBay set has all the features of the preproduction sets, including the development receiver capsule.  Why in the world would they have used old transducers when it was prudent to show a top quality product at the fair.

A PMMA plastic housing can probably be molded in the same compression mold as used for Bakelite just with reduced pressure and temperature.  Notice the thick walls just like the Bakelite prototype.

Offline TelePlay

  • Global Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 7329
  • Character is Fate
    • . . . the times they been a'changing
Re: Very nice WE 1930s Clear 302 Prototype for sale on eBay
« Reply #24 on: October 18, 2016, 11:09:53 AM »
The World's Fair telephone shows no sound slots ("vents") under the cradle in one of the pictures . . .

This one photo shows two of the clear sets, one in use and one below the counter top. Both are back views and neither seems to show vent.

Also, a poll has been added to this topic for members to take a guesstimate of where the seller has set the reserve. I am sure the reserve will be met and the special contest converted to a real contest (and maybe not until the auction ends) but I'm looking for what other members think the seller would consider "a modest reserve" on the phone. Take a guess . . .
            John . . .

              

Offline Dan/Panther

  • Global Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 5414
  • Kaw-Liga, I will NEVER forget you. 8/4/98--9/20/10
Re: Very nice WE 1930s Clear 302 Prototype for sale on eBay
« Reply #25 on: October 18, 2016, 11:26:15 AM »
Yes,...
I thought the mixture of parts is interesting.  I wonder whether the World Fair pamphlet was originally connected to this set, or acquired separately.

The parts of the phone appear to be from early 1937, perhaps even 1936.  The receiver capsule is still the development version.
But the handset cord is much younger.

Wasn't the 302 in fairly wide use by 1939 ?
D/P

The More People I meet, The More I Love, and MISS My Dog.  Dan Robinson

unbeldi

  • Guest
Re: Very nice WE 1930s Clear 302 Prototype for sale on eBay
« Reply #26 on: October 18, 2016, 11:44:06 AM »
Wasn't the 302 in fairly wide use by 1939 ?
D/P
Most certainly, indeed.

The seller quite correctly states that this is a prototype.
It is unfortunate that he, intentionally or not, creates a connection with the World's Fair.
He claims the set came from a Bell employee, so this employee may well have had Fair memorabilia in his possession too.

Offline TelePlay

  • Global Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 7329
  • Character is Fate
    • . . . the times they been a'changing
Re: Very nice WE 1930s Clear 302 Prototype for sale on eBay
« Reply #27 on: October 19, 2016, 12:32:48 AM »
There are 3 tied top watched phones on eBay as of this post and two of them are auction contests. The only one that isn't is a Ericsson Skeletal Model AC100 desk phone which started at $3,000.

The other two are this clear 302 and the SC Stick, all 3 of these have 73 watchers.

The phone in 4th place only has 56 watchers. The excitement grows for snipe time on this clear prototype. Should be interesting.
            John . . .

              

Offline Jim Stettler

  • Global Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3710
Re: Very nice WE 1930s Clear 302 Prototype for sale on eBay
« Reply #28 on: October 21, 2016, 12:10:28 PM »
The "Voice Mirror"  display had a visitor speake into a handset while their friend listened in on, Their voice was then played back, The listen-in recie ver was so their friend could say "That is what you sound like" .
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


My clear 302 housing is a small plunger set. It has the solid grip (no vents). I bought it as a damaged housing only. This set is the only other plastic small plunger set that I know of.

Here is a link for small plunger 302's
http://vintagephone.com/HB302.htm

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

It is very possible the Worlds fair sets used different components among the sets used @ the fair.( I would guess all the sets might be small plunger sets)

Bell Labs used events like the worlds fair to gather data, A lot of the data was observational on how people use phones, they would give free hearing test to get an idea of hearing ranges among age groups ect.

I could see them trying different components and testing them daily or after the fair to see how things held-up.

JMO,
Jim S.

Most clear 302's you see appear to be Retirement sets from the early 40's and later. The other clear 302 style that comes up are the Clear "colored" sets. These were used in telephone company displays with colored 302's. They are built like a color 302 and have a clear housing.  I also know of a 2-line rose tint clear 302. The handset was replaced with an early clear handset very similar to the one on this set.
You live, You learn,
You die, you forget it all.

Offline poplar1

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 6113
  • 1051-AL
Re: Very nice WE 1930s Clear 302 Prototype for sale on eBay
« Reply #29 on: October 21, 2016, 12:31:38 PM »
  I also know of a 2-line rose tint clear 302. The handset was replaced with an early clear handset very similar to the one on this set.


Sonny acquired a clear 302 with rose tint about 20 years ago. The guy that sold it to him was the son of one of the top executives at one of the midwest Bell companies. Sonny listed it on Ebay, and the winning bidder (for about $5K) said that the tinted clear phones were made earlier than the other clear phones. He said that there had also been another tinted color, possibly blue? In any case, Bell decided to go with the non-tinted version for the bulk of the small production.
"C'est pas une restauration, c'est une rénovation."--François Martin.