Author Topic: AE 40 with Felt Covered Base Plate  (Read 2888 times)

Offline poplar1

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Re: AE 40 with Felt Covered Base Plate
« Reply #30 on: January 24, 2017, 09:12:26 AM »
So, TK7 is the "order number", according to the tag. And TK is also stamped on the ringing capacitor.
"C'est pas une restauration, c'est une rénovation."--François Martin.

Offline AE_Collector

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Re: AE 40 with Felt Covered Base Plate
« Reply #31 on: January 24, 2017, 10:01:40 AM »
Yes that is a significant thing that I see in that group of pictures. Seems odd that so many components would have the order number on them, even condensers that you would think were built by the thousands including the identification printing and the used as needed to build phones. Could always be an order placed by AE with themselves to manufacture 10,000 of a certain type of 40 to meet demand over the next month or so.

Can we see markings on the transmitter and receiver capsules Jack?

Terry

unbeldi

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Re: AE 40 with Felt Covered Base Plate
« Reply #32 on: January 24, 2017, 10:15:02 AM »
So, TK7 is the "order number", according to the tag. And TK is also stamped on the ringing capacitor.

I think that is doubtful. It is just stamped there by chance.  The first two letters of this group are usually stamped on the base, the dial, the capacitor, the TX and RX elements.  It probably is an inspection code.  The code on the dial and the capacitor is often suffixed by a number, one or two digits, but not consistently the same on the same set.  TX and RX elements apparently never have any suffixes, just the two letter.  The two-letter code can be used to spot sets that had a component changed after manufacture.

None of the other information on that tag is stamped where one would expect it, why assume that the last code is ?
It appears that the tag was stamped in the same manner as the bottom was stamped on set that didn't have a felt cover.  Someone stamped the type string, and then someone stamped the "third group" code, as we have been calling it here lately.  These rarely line up, and sometime are even upside down, it appears a separate process.

My suspicion is that this set has that tag because they couldn't stamp the bottom, but we don't have other new sets to compare. Perhaps they all had a tag as well.  I doubt there is a stamp underneath the felt.

« Last Edit: January 24, 2017, 11:17:55 AM by unbeldi »

Offline Jack Ryan

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Re: AE 40 with Felt Covered Base Plate
« Reply #33 on: January 24, 2017, 11:14:47 AM »
Can we see markings on the transmitter and receiver capsules Jack?

I could not find any stamped markings on the elements to photograph.

Jack

Offline Jack Ryan

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Re: AE 40 with Felt Covered Base Plate
« Reply #34 on: January 24, 2017, 11:22:20 AM »
Since you are using a Canon EOS 70D camera with some meta data, I'd think one of the 5 images you tried to load had a random string within the image that caused all 5 images to no load. Resizing the image at least one, or just the offending image (you could try loading those 5 one at a time to see which one has the bad string, resize it and try loading it again).

The meta data attached to the last image you posted is attached to this reply in pdf format.

Having created a lot of combined images for the auction contest gallery and Find of the Month winning phones, I ended up with 2 or 3 that did not load and offered what I found to work best  when dealing with the security "Error" issue, which come from 1 of 2 issue or in the worst case, both in one image.

     http://www.classicrotaryphones.com/forum/index.php?topic=16137.msg180586#msg180586

After resizing the problem images, they loaded without further issue.


It was much faster to create a PDF than to play trial and error with the pictures and I was in a rush. The pictures were already processes (cropped).

It would be much more efficient to fix the problem.

Jack

Offline TelePlay

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Re: AE 40 with Felt Covered Base Plate
« Reply #35 on: January 24, 2017, 01:23:47 PM »
It was much faster to create a PDF than to play trial and error with the pictures and I was in a rush. The pictures were already processes (cropped).

It would be much more efficient to fix the problem.

Jack

Yes, I fully understand and agree. In this case, I took the opportunity of your reply as a way to let other members know of the fix. When in a hurry and getting hung with with that "error" issue, anything that can get the job done works. The "posting photos on the forum" area is not as highly read as these interesting phone topics.

I screen captured your images from the pdf file so they could be posted on their own but being screen captures (wasn't working on my machine that extracts pdf images) are low resolution so if you want to upload the images, if you care to do so, in higher resolution, that would be great.

EDIT:  Original images have been extracted from the pdf document and posted in place of the screen captured images in Reply 29 above.
« Last Edit: January 25, 2017, 01:56:45 AM by TelePlay »
            John . . .

              

Offline Jack Ryan

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Re: AE 40 with Felt Covered Base Plate
« Reply #36 on: January 24, 2017, 05:08:22 PM »
I screen captured your images from the pdf file so they could be posted on their own but being screen captures (wasn't working on my machine that extracts pdf images) are low resolution so if you want to upload the images, if you care to do so, in higher resolution, that would be great.

Thanks for posting the images. For reference it was not necessary (should not have been necessary) to screen capture. I usually right click an image and, depending on the application, "copy image", or "save image as". Anyway, the information has been conveyed.

Regards
Jack

(off to a meeting)

Offline TelePlay

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Re: AE 40 with Felt Covered Base Plate
« Reply #37 on: January 24, 2017, 05:44:29 PM »
Thanks for posting the images. For reference it was not necessary (should not have been necessary) to screen capture. I usually right click an image and, depending on the application, "copy image", or "save image as". Anyway, the information has been conveyed.

I only have the reader versions, Acrobat Reader and Nitro Reader, and right click in either does not work. However, Nitro Reader does have an extract images button in the tool bar which allowed me to extract all images at once and exchange the screen capture images posted in the full sized pdf file images. 

     http://www.classicrotaryphones.com/forum/index.php?topic=16986.msg181117#msg181117

The images shown are clickable, they enlarge to full size when clicked on.
« Last Edit: January 24, 2017, 11:50:00 PM by TelePlay »
            John . . .

              

Offline AE_Collector

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Re: AE 40 with Felt Covered Base Plate
« Reply #38 on: January 24, 2017, 07:30:11 PM »
A couple of things about Jacks Felt based 40 that are different than any in my records so far.

The ringer is a SL with code D-56452-C. So far I don't have ANY ringers in the 5645x range but lots of 5646x range. Will have to look that up unless anyone knows of hand what may be different about this one.

The Induction coil is the only -B that I have seen. All 40's, 47's and 50's have the D-282996-A Induction Coil yet this one has a -B and its code is stamped on the side of the bakelite base of the IC, not on the fabric wrapped around the coil like usual.

Jack:
Can you check the large Condenser for model and two letter code.

Is there no printing on the capsules at all? Is the transmitter capsule black, brass or the newer aluminum case? I have seen the new aluminum, ones that are unmarked and have seen a couple that a code is stamped into the aluminum, rather than printed on but most of the old capsules have ink printing on them.

The schematic references an Optional handset with a transmitter Cut Out for noisy locations. I don't think that is normally shown on the Schematic is it? Yet it is an option not always equipped. Would the different induction coil have anything to so with the option of using this handset on this 4046 sets?

Terry
« Last Edit: January 24, 2017, 07:44:27 PM by AE_Collector »

unbeldi

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Re: AE 40 with Felt Covered Base Plate
« Reply #39 on: January 24, 2017, 09:28:57 PM »
The major groups of ringers are distinguished in the digit preceding and including the position of '4', i.e. D-56yxx with y=1,2,... and xx for the various specific properties.
The series starts with y=1 in the late 1920s.
I believe the D-564xx ringers were issued in the 1941-1942 time frame. I have found no specific reference to the series in the catalogs. It seems to fall in between those that are easily available in digit form. However, circumstantial evidence of ringer coil numbers place it into that time slot, IMHO. Perhaps the change in numbering reflects certain changes in permissible materials during the war period. I am thinking of similar changes that Western Electric made starting in 1941 when they changed the material of their ringer coil cores for the red-stripe ringers.

The same argument may apply to the induction coil.  Rather than issuing a new number, the changed the suffix from A to B.  I believe after the war, the standard coils was once again marked –A.

The early schematic of the AE 40 sets was D-53688 which indeed had the alternate receiver in the diagram.  I have found the same diagram in other sets, for example, I have recorded a set  SN 4022 A0 with that diagram with issue no. 6.




A couple of things about Jacks Felt based 40 that are different than any in my records so far.

The ringer is a SL with code D-56452-C. So far I don't have ANY ringers in the 5645x range but lots of 5646x range. Will have to look that up unless anyone knows of hand what may be different about this one.

The Induction coil is the only -B that I have seen. All 40's, 47's and 50's have the D-282996-A Induction Coil yet this one has a -B and its code is stamped on the side of the bakelite base of the IC, not on the fabric wrapped around the coil like usual.

Jack:
Can you check the large Condenser for model and two letter code.

Is there no printing on the capsules at all? Is the transmitter capsule black, brass or the newer aluminum case? I have seen the new aluminum, ones that are unmarked and have seen a couple that a code is stamped into the aluminum, rather than printed on but most of the old capsules have ink printing on them.

The schematic references an Optional handset with a transmitter Cut Out for noisy locations. I don't think that is normally shown on the Schematic is it? Yet it is an option not always equipped. Would the different induction coil have anything to so with the option of using this handset on this 4046 sets?

Terry
« Last Edit: January 25, 2017, 08:13:23 AM by unbeldi »

Offline AE_Collector

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Re: AE 40 with Felt Covered Base Plate
« Reply #40 on: January 24, 2017, 11:11:56 PM »
Oh okay, I didn't realize that the optional handset was shown in diagrams frequently, just an option I guess.

This ringer while being in the 654xx series is a 5645x which I haven't seen rather than 5646x which are very common. Some short lived version or possibly a change necessitated by materials shortages.

Terry

unbeldi

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Re: AE 40 with Felt Covered Base Plate
« Reply #41 on: January 25, 2017, 09:00:59 AM »
It might be useful to tabulate ringers found in AE Monophones.  Only the catalogs until 1934 show the part numbers, after 1934 the catalogs were changed to using different catalog numbers for many or most parts and assemblies,  for example  the 34A3 changed from format L-220 to AA-10.  However, the codes that were printed on, for example, schematic labels, were still L-220, in this example.  Samiliarly for ringers.  This makes it very hard to correlate parts found on telsets to those displayed in catalogs. We have several bulletins with replacement parts, which do list the part numbers, rather than those shorter catalog numbers.

« Last Edit: January 25, 2017, 12:15:33 PM by unbeldi »

Offline AE_Collector

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Re: AE 40 with Felt Covered Base Plate
« Reply #42 on: January 25, 2017, 12:15:07 PM »
When I started recording Base Codes and the details of each phone a number of years ago I didn't do a very good job. Much of my early info was recorded from phones seen on eBay where the pictures were quite good. But large amounts of detail still wasn't available. I made up for some of that when I started asking phone club members to fill in survey forms about their phones but that still missed some detail. Now I have records of numerous phones that could be of particular interest but key details weren't recorded. Nothing to do but keep collecting more info.

Yes, if the codes in the catalogs lined up with the codes on the bases of the phones this project would be considerably easier!

Earlier in a different topic we discussed the dial code letter used when ordering (L4111) AE 47 sets. They are M for Numbers Only, C for Dial Blank, E for Letters/Numbers yet the codes on the actual phones are A for numbers only, B for Dial Blank and D or E for Numbers/Letters Dials. E lines up in this case but likely a total coincidence.

I think it was either after the 4055 (1934) or the 4055A (1937) and by the 4055B (1938) catalog when the ordering codes completely changed.

Terry
« Last Edit: January 25, 2017, 09:36:18 PM by AE_Collector »

unbeldi

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Re: AE 40 with Felt Covered Base Plate
« Reply #43 on: January 25, 2017, 12:37:14 PM »
Yes if the codes in the catalogs lined up with the codes on the bases of the phones this project would be considerably easier.

Earlier in a differentt topic we discussed the dial code letter used when ordering (L4111) AE 47 sets. They are M for Numbers Only, C for Dial Blank, E for Letters/Numbers yet the codes on the actual phones are A for numbers only, B for Dial Blank, D or E for Numbers/Letters. E lines up in this case but likely a total coincidence.

I think it was either after the 4055 (1934) or the 4055A (1937) and by the 4055B (1938) catalog when the ordering codes completely changed.

Terry

4055A already uses the new codes.

I have the feeling that the codes for the dial evolved over time and was not necessarily constant even within a model line. For example, on the Type 43 Monophone, the compact desk side or wall phone, the presence of the dial was code 'L', while B was again a blank.  One might think that AE couldn't have used so many different dials that they ran out of numbering options.  We simply don't understand the coding logistics used by AE.  Even apparatus that could not conceivably have a dial, such as a ringer or magneto generator and battery box, used the same coding style:   L 594 A0.

It may well be that the "A" model was not a particular characteristic, but a designation for the "standard" factory configuration, no matter what it exactly was at any given time.

Offline AE_Collector

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Re: AE 40 with Felt Covered Base Plate
« Reply #44 on: January 25, 2017, 09:45:54 PM »
It may well be that the "A" model was not a particular characteristic, but a designation for the "standard" factory configuration, no matter what it exactly was at any given time.

Yes that could be, "A = Standard Configuration" for that particular model.

There are numerous potential differences in dials between the different number plates and different contact set arrangements though there wouldn't be many different contact set arrangements used within off the shelf 40, 43, 47 & 50 sets.

Terry