Author Topic: Kellogg 5/58 DK 591 Phone.... tell me about this ....  (Read 3690 times)

Offline LoveOldPhones

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Re: Kellogg 5/58 DK 591 Phone.... tell me about this ....
« Reply #45 on: December 01, 2016, 09:12:46 PM »

Take a deep breath and start experimenting. The highest value of the current ringer is educational.
  You won't screw up your phone and if you do you can get it back together. Before long you will be the local "go-to" person for old telephone repair.
There are diagrams in the K500 handbook. (link posted earlier).

JMO,
Jim S.

YEAH.....  I was just looking at the diagrams.  i might have missed it but I didn't see anything on moving the weight forward.  there is a small screw on it.
Is that something where you unscrew and move it then screw back down ?

I am going to try connecting the wires for the ringer ... the handbook showed that.
and as far as me being the go to person for phone repair?  HAHAHA !   thats a real laugh. 

If i can get this phone to ring by moving the weight.... that will be an accomplishment.
I'm certainly going to try. lol

unbeldi

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Re: Kellogg 5/58 DK 591 Phone.... tell me about this ....
« Reply #46 on: December 01, 2016, 09:22:07 PM »
It would be a good idea to take the ringer out first and note the markings on it.  It should have the specification stamped on it in form of codes and it may also specify the frequency.

Look for a code such as  HA-1, 2... 5,   or HB-1... 5, or HC-1...5
This tells us just how much it might be necessary to adjust the ringer, if at all.

I assume the ringer has TWO wires coming out of it ?   red and black ?

The small set screw on the clapper weight hold it on to the clapper.   But don't change it until we know what the frequency codes are, just in case you are lucky and it is a 20 Hz ringer, which is the frequency used today only.

I also cannot see whether there is a separate capacitor mounted near the ringer.   If there isn't then most likely the ringer might ring without or with very small adjustment.

unbeldi

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Re: Kellogg 5/58 DK 591 Phone.... tell me about this ....
« Reply #47 on: December 01, 2016, 09:26:56 PM »
If I was correct about the wires, this diagram should help to reconnect the ringer.

PS: I see that you do have a line cord now.  It has red and green wires, but they are attached in reverse of what I drew in this diagram.  The diagram is the correct way, but it doesn't really matter anymore today. Polarity is not important anymore.
« Last Edit: December 01, 2016, 09:29:36 PM by unbeldi »

Offline LoveOldPhones

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Re: Kellogg 5/58 DK 591 Phone.... tell me about this ....
« Reply #48 on: December 01, 2016, 10:52:46 PM »
If I was correct about the wires, this diagram should help to reconnect the ringer.

PS: I see that you do have a line cord now.  It has red and green wires, but they are attached in reverse of what I drew in this diagram.  The diagram is the correct way, but it doesn't really matter anymore today. Polarity is not important anymore.

yes...  you are right.  the ringer wires are red and black.  I will study the diagram you sent me. 
I will try doing this in the daylight.  It will be easier to see at my desk by the window.

so let me get this straight then....  the red ringer wire should attach to the same connector as the GREEN line cord wire ?  ( because I now have a line cord on there and its in reverse)

let me know if thats what you mean.... thats what the diagram looks like to me.

thanks


unbeldi

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Re: Kellogg 5/58 DK 591 Phone.... tell me about this ....
« Reply #49 on: December 02, 2016, 08:19:29 AM »
Yes, if your line cord is reversed the red ringer wire connects to the green line conductor.  But since you have to loosen those two screws on the L1 and L2 terminals, you might as well swap the colors and make it consistent.

Looking at your picture again,  I do not see an extra capacitor mounted on or by the ringer, but the picture is only so good... as you mentioned.
But what that means to me, is that the phone originally used the capacitor that is contained inside the network canister. The screws A and K are the terminals of that internal capacitor. This capacitor was used for 5 types of ringers tuned to these frequencies:
16 2/3 Hz & 25 Hz  (harmonic),
16 Hz (synchromonic),
20 Hz (decimonic), and
30 Hz (synchromonic and decimonic).

I believe any one of these can be tuned to ring at 20 Hz simply be moving the heavy striker weight.

Did you find any small wire jumper connected to one of the terminals by any chance?   You need one, and if not already present, just use any small piece of wire to connect the terminals K and L1.
« Last Edit: December 02, 2016, 08:28:23 AM by unbeldi »

Offline LoveOldPhones

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Re: Kellogg 5/58 DK 591 Phone.... tell me about this ....
« Reply #50 on: December 02, 2016, 12:06:19 PM »
Yes, if your line cord is reversed the red ringer wire connects to the green line conductor.  But since you have to loosen those two screws on the L1 and L2 terminals, you might as well swap the colors and make it consistent.

Looking at your picture again,  I do not see an extra capacitor mounted on or by the ringer, but the picture is only so good... as you mentioned.
But what that means to me, is that the phone originally used the capacitor that is contained inside the network canister. The screws A and K are the terminals of that internal capacitor. This capacitor was used for 5 types of ringers tuned to these frequencies:
16 2/3 Hz & 25 Hz  (harmonic),
16 Hz (synchromonic),
20 Hz (decimonic), and
30 Hz (synchromonic and decimonic).

I believe any one of these can be tuned to ring at 20 Hz simply be moving the heavy striker weight.

Did you find any small wire jumper connected to one of the terminals by any chance?   You need one, and if not already present, just use any small piece of wire to connect the terminals K and L1.

Hi...  I just saw your post.  I have not had a chance to look at things yet.  I want to get to this in the daylight....  but I don't have time at the moment.

let me get into this later today and I will get back to you.
thanks for your help.

unbeldi

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Re: Kellogg 5/58 DK 591 Phone.... tell me about this ....
« Reply #51 on: December 02, 2016, 12:28:00 PM »
Take your time.   No rush.

Offline LoveOldPhones

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Re: Kellogg 5/58 DK 591 Phone.... tell me about this ....
« Reply #52 on: December 02, 2016, 04:28:03 PM »
Take your time.   No rush.

OK !   I made all the connections and guess what !   the ringer works BUT !!!!  the weight is not reaching the bells !  its just moving back and forth between the bells and not reaching them.  so all the connections are making the ringer work..... but its NOT swinging wide enough to hit the bells.
so now what ?

Offline LoveOldPhones

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Re: Kellogg 5/58 DK 591 Phone.... tell me about this ....
« Reply #53 on: December 02, 2016, 04:48:12 PM »
I been trying to unscrew the little screw in the weight and it won't budge.  I thought I would try to move it forward to see what happens....  but the screw is frozen in place.  I just can't get it to move and I am afraid that any more trying is going to strip that slot.

let me know what you think.  this is interesting because at least I have gotten the weight to vibrate but it just does not reach the bells.

Offline Jim S.

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Re: Kellogg 5/58 DK 591 Phone.... tell me about this ....
« Reply #54 on: December 02, 2016, 05:27:02 PM »
Can you move the gongs closer to the clapper?
Jim S.
You live, You learn,
You die, you forget it all.

unbeldi

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Re: Kellogg 5/58 DK 591 Phone.... tell me about this ....
« Reply #55 on: December 02, 2016, 05:46:55 PM »
It appears the ringer's frequency is just off far enough to not provide strong ringing action.  This is how a frequency ringer is supposed to work.
Moving the clapper would provide the solution, but don't damage it. I agree.  Perhaps use some penetrating oil and try again after a few days.

The bells can't be moved very much on these ringer, I don't think, but that is how the loudness control works. It moves one of them slightly.


Offline LoveOldPhones

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Re: Kellogg 5/58 DK 591 Phone.... tell me about this ....
« Reply #56 on: December 02, 2016, 07:39:26 PM »
I tried putting the ringer switch on loud but really.... the stryker just does not even come close to the bells.  I think this is a case where I will have to wait till my phone friend finds the replacement to put on it.   thats ok... I don't mind.  I was hoping that I could get it to ring.

it was fun trying anyway.

thanks for your help.

Offline Jim S.

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Re: Kellogg 5/58 DK 591 Phone.... tell me about this ....
« Reply #57 on: December 02, 2016, 10:19:47 PM »
Loud allows  a harder "hit" from the clapper to the gong, It is the furthest setting. the closest setting is the one that might sound.
JMO,
Jim S.
You live, You learn,
You die, you forget it all.

Offline LoveOldPhones

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Re: Kellogg 5/58 DK 591 Phone.... tell me about this ....
« Reply #58 on: December 03, 2016, 02:26:00 AM »
Loud allows  a harder "hit" from the clapper to the gong, It is the furthest setting. the closest setting is the one that might sound.
JMO,
Jim S.

OK  thanks Jim....  I'll give that one a try.