Author Topic: Western Electric 653 Apartment Phone  (Read 1924 times)

Offline poplar1

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 5614
  • 102C-6 = "Old Brass" Hand Telephone Set
Re: Western Electric 653 Apartment Phone
« Reply #15 on: November 27, 2016, 04:02:39 PM »
The red lead (common xmtr/rec when off-hook) is actually disconnected from R on the induction coil of the 553, whenever the H-1542 is switched to the house talk pair.
"C'est pas une restauration, c'est une rénovation."--François Martin.

unbeldi

  • Guest
Re: Western Electric 653 Apartment Phone
« Reply #16 on: November 27, 2016, 04:04:40 PM »
The red lead (common xmtr/rec when off-hook) is actually disconnected from R on the induction coil of the 553, whenever the H-1542 is switched to the house talk pair.

Yes, it should be.  The induction coil is not needed for intercom mode.

Offline poplar1

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 5614
  • 102C-6 = "Old Brass" Hand Telephone Set
Re: Western Electric 653 Apartment Phone
« Reply #17 on: November 27, 2016, 04:10:46 PM »
Not disconnecting the common lead from R would also leave a path through the Ind. Coil primary to the outside line even when the intercom was in use, would it not?
"C'est pas une restauration, c'est une rénovation."--François Martin.

unbeldi

  • Guest
Re: Western Electric 653 Apartment Phone
« Reply #18 on: November 27, 2016, 04:21:12 PM »
Not disconnecting the common lead from R would also leave a path through the Ind. Coil primary to the outside line even when the intercom was in use, would it not?

I don't have the diagrams in front of me, but if I recall it is identical to the 302 circuit, and therefore it seems when the other end of the transmitter (black or yellow on the other side of the hook switch) is switched it would automatically break the local loop circuit in any case.

It would probably help to see actual pictures of the wiring that is in fact provided in this 653E; I don't think I have seen a diagram for such sets.  I would think it is almost identical to the 653A, just having provisions for rerouting wires.


unbeldi

  • Guest
Re: Western Electric 653 Apartment Phone
« Reply #19 on: November 27, 2016, 04:27:17 PM »
It would also probably be helpful to use a separate handset, for example an F1 handset, to make the local intercom circuits operational without involving the 653.  This way the two circuits can be tested independently.

The final step would be to rewire the setup so that the transmitter and receiver of the 653 is switched in and used instead of the helper handset.

Only complication with this is that the hookswitch isn't used in the process.

Offline poplar1

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 5614
  • 102C-6 = "Old Brass" Hand Telephone Set
Re: Western Electric 653 Apartment Phone
« Reply #20 on: November 27, 2016, 04:34:55 PM »
Here is the manager's or janitor's station:
"C'est pas une restauration, c'est une rénovation."--François Martin.

Offline BobDelGreco

  • *
  • Posts: 10
Re: Western Electric 653 Apartment Phone
« Reply #21 on: November 27, 2016, 08:12:12 PM »
Ok, a little update.

I did some more checking and as poplar1 suggested, "to find another way of connecting the back from R in the subset to Green in the receiver, because K was already in use for the ringer". So i added a new punch.  and it looks like 'B' was not 100% correct either.

And I found that I still had the switch hook connected to R  and  B.  So I fixed all that  too.

Now,  it rings,  dial tone only in the Central Office position, 'house' side of switch cuts the dial tone as expected. Having trouble dialing out, but, I need to double-check that as well.

Thank you poplar1 for all the info, a great learning experience.  And thank you unbeldi for the insight as well.  I really appreciate it.

and Brinybay, yes, i agree, these hotel phones are pretty sharp and lots of fun to work on.

I'll keep you posted on the dialing.

Offline poplar1

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 5614
  • 102C-6 = "Old Brass" Hand Telephone Set
Re: Western Electric 653 Apartment Phone
« Reply #22 on: November 27, 2016, 11:53:12 PM »
I agree with unbeldi that perhaps you should try wiring the phone according to the 653-A diagram, and get the dial and transmitter working on the telephone line, before connecting the other box.

It's rather difficult to help you troubleshoot without either a 653-E diagram or photos of your wiring. Perhaps you could provide photos of both parts of the insides, although it's rather difficult sometimes to distinguish the colors of the old wires, even with the actual phone in hand. The dial wires are especially frustrating since often the dial has been removed at one time or another and the wires may have been moved around.
"C'est pas une restauration, c'est une rénovation."--François Martin.

unbeldi

  • Guest
Re: Western Electric 653 Apartment Phone
« Reply #23 on: November 28, 2016, 04:45:04 PM »
I just drew a diagram that should be more illustrative for the functioning of the H-1542 than the original diagram.

It is drawn with the key in the House Intercom position.  This shows clearly how the transmitter (TX)—receiver (RX) loop is switched into the H1—H2 house loop.

The 653 subscriber set is only shown by the screw posts on the connection board encircled with a dashed line.

I didn't try to replicate exactly the connections internal to the 653.  The wire routing to the transmitter and receiver are only schematic to show the principle that needs to be achieved. 

Hope this helps.


PS: the diagram shows 553 labeling of the wall phone, and not 653. But the principle should be the same.  What I labelled as Y is the electrically the same a BK, but separated by the hook switch and the dial pulse switch.  So that wire goes to the hook switch first, before going to the line.

Do you have a 101A induction coil or a 146 ?
« Last Edit: November 28, 2016, 05:12:45 PM by unbeldi »

unbeldi

  • Guest
Re: Western Electric 653 Apartment Phone
« Reply #24 on: November 28, 2016, 05:25:48 PM »
The house intercom circuit is completed at the others end(s) simply by a another series circuit of transmitter and receiver, but including a battery in the circuit to power the transmitters on both ends.  This is a simplest kind of telephone circuit.

H2 would be the negative pole of the battery, and H1 on the positive pole.   The manager and janitor also have push buttons to close the buzzer circuit, also including the battery, to this apartment.

Offline BobDelGreco

  • *
  • Posts: 10
Re: Western Electric 653 Apartment Phone
« Reply #25 on: November 28, 2016, 05:30:41 PM »
Great info, thank you!

I have the 101A induction coil