Author Topic: A red 500 for Christmas .....  (Read 2843 times)

Offline LoveOldPhones

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A red 500 for Christmas .....
« on: December 22, 2016, 08:29:35 PM »
I decided that my place needed a little Christmas decorating.... so I bought a red Kellogg phone from 1959.  Nice fat feet and 6 holes in the earpiece...
but the only thing I don't understand is that the curly cord is  ... not super skinny..... but not that FAT Boy curly cord that would be so nice on that phone.

The cord has that lush silky feel of the early fat cords.....  but its not that fat..... a disappointment to be sure.

It is a Kellogg/Itt from 1959.... with no vermillion stamped on the bottom....
So... I am wondering if this cord MIGHT actually be the original cord.... even if it doesn't make sense that  a phone this early would have a thinner curly cord.  What do you think about this ?

Were the early Kellogg/Itt 500 style phones coming with those thinner cords in 1959 ?

thanks

unbeldi

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Re: A red 500 for Christmas .....
« Reply #1 on: December 22, 2016, 08:53:07 PM »
Pics ?  It's hard to compare without seeing it.

Here is a WECo handset cord H4BR-61 of II-59 (gray) for comparison, and a red H4BH-51 of II-56.
« Last Edit: December 22, 2016, 09:02:20 PM by unbeldi »

unbeldi

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Re: A red 500 for Christmas .....
« Reply #2 on: December 22, 2016, 09:06:58 PM »
Here is another H4BR  of II-59 in green:

unbeldi

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Re: A red 500 for Christmas .....
« Reply #3 on: December 22, 2016, 09:19:33 PM »
I don't know how this correlates with Kellogg cordage timelines, but the WECo coiled cords for the color sets in the 1950 are:

H4BH  1954
H4BR  1957
H4CJ  1959

The H4CJ cords were the first PVC jacketed cords, definitely [are] thinner than earlier cords, and were available in 1959, so it is likely that other manufacturers also used them by that time.
« Last Edit: December 22, 2016, 10:12:22 PM by unbeldi »

Offline poplar1

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Re: A red 500 for Christmas .....
« Reply #4 on: December 22, 2016, 10:04:39 PM »
I don't know how this correlates with Kellogg cordage timelines, but the WECo coiled cords for the color sets in the 1950 are:

H4BH  1954
H4BR  1957
H4CJ  1959

The H4CJ cords were the first PVC jacketed cords, definitely thinner than earlier cords, and were available in 1959, so it is likely that other manufacturers also used them by that time.

Actually, cords for color 500s had PVC jackets starting in early 1954. By 1959, black sets got PVC jacketed cords.
http://www.telephonecollectors.info/index.php/browse/document-repository/catalogs-manuals/western-electric/bell-labs-record/doc_details/11562-59may-blr-p187-telephone-cords (TCI Library)
"C'est pas une restauration, c'est une rénovation."--François Martin.

unbeldi

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Re: A red 500 for Christmas .....
« Reply #5 on: December 22, 2016, 10:11:34 PM »
Ah, yes, I do remember that article.  So, H4BH and H4BR are also a type of PVC on the color sets.

However, I have found the black H4BR cords in say 1958 essentially identical to the color cords.

« Last Edit: December 22, 2016, 10:16:42 PM by unbeldi »

Offline LoveOldPhones

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Re: A red 500 for Christmas .....
« Reply #6 on: December 22, 2016, 10:36:10 PM »
Pics ?  It's hard to compare without seeing it.

Here is a WECo handset cord H4BR-61 of II-59 (gray) for comparison, and a red H4BH-51 of II-56.


Thanks for the pics.... but those cords are fuller and fatter than the cord on my red Kellogg.   I will try to post a picture of it.  I have a grey WE from 58 that has that same full fat cord.  The red Kellogg does not have that fatter cord.

I'll try to get the pic posted. Its a very nice phone..... but that cord just seems so strange looking on it.
it DOES have that feel though.... which is weird.  it feels like the fatter cords.... same material.....  just not as fat.

Offline Jim S.

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Re: A red 500 for Christmas .....
« Reply #7 on: December 22, 2016, 10:50:27 PM »
The WE cords were owned by Bell and were made to last. Kellogg sold their phones to Independent Telephone companies. The Independent cords typically weren't as heavy duty. There were several companies that  made replacement cords for the independent telephone company market.


JMO,
Jim S.


You could always put a fat cord on it if you wanted to.
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Offline LoveOldPhones

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Re: A red 500 for Christmas .....
« Reply #8 on: December 23, 2016, 01:34:00 AM »
The WE cords were owned by Bell and were made to last. Kellogg sold their phones to Independent Telephone companies. The Independent cords typically weren't as heavy duty. There were several companies that  made replacement cords for the independent telephone company market.


JMO,
Jim S.


You could always put a fat cord on it if you wanted to.

YES !   thats what I would like to do...  put on a nice FAT red curly cord... then the phone would look  PERFECT.
well.... not perfect because I still need a red line cord too.

I have been looking online for a fat red curly cord.... I can't find one.
Any suggestions ?

thanks

Offline Jim S.

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Re: A red 500 for Christmas .....
« Reply #9 on: December 23, 2016, 10:31:27 AM »
The best place to find NOS (or nice/used) hardwire phone cords is thru this forum, thru the telephone clubs (ATCA and TCI) and at phone shows.  There is a guy that always brings hundreds of cords to the KS show.
Jim S.
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You die, you forget it all.

Offline Dan/Panther

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Re: A red 500 for Christmas .....
« Reply #10 on: December 23, 2016, 11:40:53 AM »
In unbeldi's second photo, the red 500 looks red.
Did they actually make a Coca Cola red 500 ?
All I ever see are  Maroon, or other brands in Red.

D/P

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unbeldi

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Re: A red 500 for Christmas .....
« Reply #11 on: December 23, 2016, 12:00:49 PM »
In unbeldi's second photo, the red 500 looks red.
Did they actually make a Coca Cola red 500 ?
All I ever see are  Maroon, or other brands in Red.

D/P

I am not sure that I understand the question or point.  WECo only made one hue of red in the 500s, dash code 53.
But the way that color does look different depending on the amount and kind of illumination.
In low light conditions, it looks much darker indeed. Is that what you mean by "maroon" ?
The picture was taken in a 'green room' with only glass between the open sky in late day light of March, so not very bright.
Here is another taken in similar condition, perhaps a little more sunshine of a bright January day.  Looks almost as bright as Pekin Red (—20).

unbeldi

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Re: A red 500 for Christmas .....
« Reply #12 on: December 23, 2016, 12:08:42 PM »
Here is yet another one with a II-1972 H4CJ handset cord. Other than the cord, the set itself is 11-55 throughout.
This cord looks pretty thick also, actually.

Offline poplar1

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Re: A red 500 for Christmas .....
« Reply #13 on: December 23, 2016, 12:21:57 PM »
In unbeldi's second photo, the red 500 looks red.
Did they actually make a Coca Cola red 500 ?
All I ever see are  Maroon, or other brands in Red.

D/P

AT&T Service Centers did remanufacture phones in "Bright Red" (color code -114) in the 1990s. I've seen Trimlines and 2500s in this color. Not sure whether they also remanufactured 500s in this color.
"C'est pas une restauration, c'est une rénovation."--François Martin.

Offline andre_janew

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Re: A red 500 for Christmas .....
« Reply #14 on: December 23, 2016, 05:13:31 PM »
Don't the red 2500s normally have a red face plate?