Author Topic: AE 40, 47 & 50 Base Code Observations (2017!)  (Read 14302 times)

unbeldi

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Re: AE 40, 47 & 50 Base Code Observations (2017!)
« Reply #225 on: January 09, 2017, 10:05:17 PM »
AE Circular 1712 of 1950 uses letters as frequency codes for high-impedance ringers.
The part number is  D-56516-<code>

   A  16.6
   B  25
   C  33
   D  50
   E  66.6
6 F  20
   G 30
   H 42
   J  54
   K  66
   L  40
   M 60

In this list 20 Hz is also item no. 6, matching the  A6  schematic information, I showed earlier.

The list of frequency ringers available has been expanded to twelve.
The same catalog specifies only nine frequency for low frequency ringers, codes K, L, and M are missing, the list stops at J.
« Last Edit: January 10, 2017, 11:47:00 AM by unbeldi »

Offline AE_Collector

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Re: AE 40, 47 & 50 Base Code Observations (2017!)
« Reply #226 on: January 09, 2017, 10:09:23 PM »
I have been looking through the catalogs as well and noticing the order that they listed the Harmonic and Decimonic ringer formats. I noticed that in more than one case the 66~ and the 66 2/3~ cycle ringer appear to be one and the same as far as ordering codes. I guess this makes sense doesn't it? A 66~ ringer is NOT going to be on the same line as a 66 2/3~ ringer, they are two different ringing systems. And the frequency is so close together they wouldn't likely be able to make a ringer that could differentiate between those two slight differences.

Your thoughts are as follows? <edit - confirmed by your post just before this post>
0 = SL
1 = 16.6
2 = 25
3 = 33.3
4 = 50
5 - 66.6 or 66
6 = 20
7 = 30
8 = 42
9 = 54

I went through my Excel lists of base codes looking for a second code group with indications of other than a SL ringer and then looked up the reported ringer in that set. But, I have so many early reports that don't contain much "internal info" and then add that to the fact that the ringers were likely fairly often swapped out to other frequencies or SL ringers and I didn't learn much.

I did find a couple of matches to your proposed code order Unbeldi not counting code 0=SL which there are LOTS of matches.

I have a 3 coded base with a 33.3~ ringer in it. The base code for this one is actually A3H where as the idea of single digit ringer codes seems to be to lower the second code section from 3 to 2 digits including the first letter for the dial plate. I wondered if the 3H might stand for 3 Harmonic (for some redundant reason).

I also  found a 7 base code with a 30~ ringer in it as well.

I found numerous mis-matches such as a 4 coded base with a 66.6 ringer rather than a 50. Also a 6 code with a 30 rather than a 20 ringer. And of course numerous 1 and 2 digit ringer codes that actually now had SL ringers in them.

Terry
« Last Edit: January 09, 2017, 10:17:22 PM by AE_Collector »

Offline RotoTech99

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Re: AE 40, 47 & 50 Base Code Observations (2017!)
« Reply #227 on: January 09, 2017, 10:12:09 PM »
Well, I know the straight line D-56515A ringer in my AE40 uses a .4mf condenser I'm assuming uses 20 cycle ring current.

RotoTech99

unbeldi

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Re: AE 40, 47 & 50 Base Code Observations (2017!)
« Reply #228 on: January 09, 2017, 10:19:33 PM »
@AE_Collector
Yes, we have to be careful with observations, ringers were very frequently changed.  I also have sets that have a frequency on the base different than what is installed, but where it happens, at least the ringing system is consistent, i.e. a harmonic ringer was not changed to a synchromonic type.

Indeed, I don't think any ringer can distinguish between 66 and 66.6 Hz unless the voltage level is so low that avery bit counts.  That is a 1% difference in frequency.

unbeldi

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Re: AE 40, 47 & 50 Base Code Observations (2017!)
« Reply #229 on: January 09, 2017, 10:21:31 PM »
Well, I know the straight line D-56515A ringer in my AE40 uses a .4mf condenser I'm assuming uses 20 cycle ring current.

RotoTech99

We are not talking about straight line ringers.  These are not frequency selective and have a wide frequency range from 16 to 30 or even 40 Hz.  A 20 Hz frequency ringer only responds to perhaps 18 to 22 Hz ringing current.[Correction: the FCC specified  20±3 Hz]
« Last Edit: January 09, 2017, 10:38:53 PM by unbeldi »

Offline AE_Collector

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Re: AE 40, 47 & 50 Base Code Observations (2017!)
« Reply #230 on: January 09, 2017, 10:42:18 PM »
The single digit coding is bound to be based on something like that chart of frequencies. The trick will be finding enough examples that seem to match the pattern still. I guess that AE wanted to alternate between letters and numbers in each code section to make the coding obvious but of course they assigned single digit numbers for frequencies that were already pushing 10 possibilities. So they appear to have changed the later charts in catalogs to letters when they added two more frequencies. But rather than changing the coding on the bases to letters it looks as though with introduction of the 41/51 sets and high impedance ringers they switched the second code section from 2 to 3 positions allowing the full frequency to be written out.

Actually, I see lots of N sets even N40xx sets with the single digit ringer codes but the L sets virtually all have 2 digit ringer codes spelling out the frequency, even on L40xx sets. So the change from 1 to 2 digit codes for the ringer doesn't really appear to be linked to the 40/41 change or the low to high impedance ringer change. It seems more related to N versus L sets. Weird.

Terry
« Last Edit: January 10, 2017, 12:40:55 AM by AE_Collector »

Offline RotoTech99

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Re: AE 40, 47 & 50 Base Code Observations (2017!)
« Reply #231 on: January 09, 2017, 10:43:53 PM »
I misunderstood, thanks for clarifying.

RotoTech99

unbeldi

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Re: AE 40, 47 & 50 Base Code Observations (2017!)
« Reply #232 on: January 10, 2017, 12:15:16 PM »
In this topic I posted a work-in-progress table of patent information found on AE 40, 50 telsets.  I wanted to keep the discussion of the patents separate from other labeling discussions, to keep some order.  This thread already contains a lot of stuff and the decals are somewhat detached from decoding of set markings.

http://www.classicrotaryphones.com/forum/index.php?topic=17420.msg180040#msg180040
« Last Edit: January 10, 2017, 12:38:25 PM by unbeldi »

Offline RotoTech99

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Re: AE 40, 47 & 50 Base Code Observations (2017!)
« Reply #233 on: January 10, 2017, 12:31:02 PM »
Dear Unbeldi:

That's a good idea, I like that.

RotoTech99

Offline poplar1

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Re: AE 40, 47 & 50 Base Code Observations (2017!)
« Reply #234 on: January 10, 2017, 01:36:18 PM »
Ivory 40:

1 XA 518927 1 (base plate); "1-XA  CODE NO. -518927-1" (diagram)

Decal: D-180404-A41 D-780504-A41

Diagram: FORM D-53940 ISSUE-7

http://www.ebay.com/itm/322385198280
« Last Edit: January 10, 2017, 02:00:37 PM by poplar1 »
"C'est pas une restauration, c'est une rénovation."--François Martin.

unbeldi

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Re: AE 40, 47 & 50 Base Code Observations (2017!)
« Reply #235 on: January 10, 2017, 01:43:21 PM »
Ivory 40:

XA 518927 1

Decal: D-180404-A41

Diagram: FORM D-53940 ISSUE-7

http://www.ebay.com/itm/322385198280

Thanks.
I think the decal is D-780504 A41.  It is hard to read, but when you know the number, it is easier to decode the image.

The set has 33 1/3 Hz low-impedance ringer,  D-56466-C.   Here we see the use of the suffix "C" to denote the 33.3 Hz ringer.

It is also interesting to note that in the schematic, the order number is written as  1–XA  5189  27–1, and the last group is offset a little on the stamp on the bottom.
This must have been some kind of special order, I suppose, the codes are hand-written.
« Last Edit: January 10, 2017, 02:00:31 PM by unbeldi »

Offline AE_Collector

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Re: AE 40, 47 & 50 Base Code Observations (2017!)
« Reply #236 on: January 10, 2017, 03:26:22 PM »
I thought maybe the machine that stamps the codes blew up right after printing that base plate.

I will add it to my inventory.

Terry

Offline stub

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Re: AE 40, 47 & 50 Base Code Observations (2017!)
« Reply #237 on: January 10, 2017, 04:32:26 PM »
Terry,
        Here's pic of requested AE 47 patent decal .    stub
                       
                                       left click on 1st pic to enlarge
« Last Edit: January 10, 2017, 04:57:15 PM by stub »
Kenneth Stubblefield        
  CRPF
   TCI

Offline andre_janew

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Re: AE 40, 47 & 50 Base Code Observations (2017!)
« Reply #238 on: January 10, 2017, 05:54:46 PM »
I've often wondered what the difference is between a straight line and a 20 hertz ringer.  Wouldn't either one work on a modern telephone system?

Offline AE_Collector

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Re: AE 40, 47 & 50 Base Code Observations (2017!)
« Reply #239 on: January 10, 2017, 06:52:19 PM »
So we haven't had any discussion about the third section of codes. It is almost always two letters and one digit such as the one on the base of Stubs AE47 in the last post RU6. I did mention once earlier that a peculiarity if this code is that it fairly if ten shows up inside the phone on other components. This made me wonder if it or part of it might be date related.

Reasonably often I have seen the same two letters show up on transmitter and/or receiver capsules. AE capsules almost always have a two letter code on them though very often they don't match each other or the third base code letters. But of course there is nothing easier to move around or replace than the transmitter and receiver capsules.

I have seen two letter codes on other components in the phone as well though much less regularly than on the capsules. We need to get stub to open up his AE 47 again, in my Base Code survey notes I have recorded that there is an RU9 code on the dial in Stubs 47. Maybe that is correct and maybe it is really RU6 like the third base code on the phone. Check everything on the capsules for us as well Stub.

There seem to be endles combinations of letters in the third base code and the two letters found on capsules. I have often wondered what on earth all these different two letter combinations stamped on simple transmitter and receiver capsules could signify. The most logical thing I can come up with is a date or plant/shift indicator.

On AE80/90 sets the date code is basically at the end of the coding sequence. Same place as this third base code sequence. I have one AE47 record from CRPF "GG" that must have been made during the conversion to 80/90 and or 86/87 type multi line sets and design of the all new coding for the new phones.
It is coded H870  661-3  8-57-8.
-The AE87 is logically the replacement for the AE47 set thus the H870 part of the new code though no idea about the H. The new 80 type coding would code all colors on the base including black which would become color 0 so the 0 in 870 code might be black.
-No idea about the 661-3 though dial and ringer could be easily coded in numbers like he new 80's would be coded. Isn't 3 retractable handset cord in the 80's?
-And there in the third code position is the manufacture date just like 80's would have. The third portion of that segment, the second 8 isn't a part of the date on 80/90 sets. It is an unknown but is most often assumed to be either a plant or a shift code. Most often this last digit was a single digit but not always so the last digit in the AE 40's third code segment is almost always a single digit which could be the same as with 80/90's.

AE parts do occasionally have "Insp 24" type stamps on them which presumably would mean "Inspected by #24". So the RU or RU6 could be an inspector number or maybe a batch number. But the Fact that capsules are stamped virtually always while other components are very hit and miss except the base plate which almost always gets stamped just doesn't seem likely that they are being stamped after some sort of inspection moments before being boxed up. The stamp size for the transmitter capsules is much smaller than the stamp in the base as well so at least two sets of stamps are needed.

Phones may have been built to order so this part of the code could be an order number. They might not have done a separate order for every little company who ordered 20 AE40's but they might have grouped orders together and decided they needed to built 1250 L4123 AE40's next week to fill that group of orders and stalled it order RU6.

All possibilities I guess.

Terry
« Last Edit: January 10, 2017, 11:58:51 PM by AE_Collector »