Author Topic: AE 40, 47 & 50 Base Code Observations (2017!)  (Read 22102 times)

Offline RotoTech99

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Re: AE 40, 47 & 50 Base Code Observations (2017!)
« Reply #240 on: January 10, 2017, 08:09:21 PM »
I used at one time a 20 cycle freq ringer on a straight line when I had no reg. st. line ringer; it rang loudly and clearly.

I did it in a AE80, and a "500" phone..
perhaps the only hitch was no vol. control on the ringer.

Offline stub

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Re: AE 40, 47 & 50 Base Code Observations (2017!)
« Reply #241 on: January 10, 2017, 09:48:57 PM »
Terry ,
          This set has the radio suppressed 51 dial stamped  RU9 on the back.  Pic of the trx and receiver numbers . The rest of the report I sent to you is correct .
           The tiny url is for my report reply #1 , reply 3 and 9 are for GG's AE 47. stub
                  http://tinyurl.com/zqjj3zw
                                       
« Last Edit: January 10, 2017, 10:21:26 PM by stub »
Kenneth Stubblefield        
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Offline AE_Collector

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Re: AE 40, 47 & 50 Base Code Observations (2017!)
« Reply #242 on: January 10, 2017, 09:49:33 PM »
Here's something of interest. A "Z" 50 with a Cold Cathode Tube in it. The drawing inside supports that it was a factory install. I don't know why they couldn't have just used an available 50xx or 51xx even if they wanted it to begin with a "Z". It is Z16631 1 OP.

So just what does having a tube do? Was it to solve ringing problems on unusually long distances from the exchange? Or is it related to frequency ringing on party lines? Would a phone with a tube likely use a frequency ringer? Just wondering if the lack of a ringer digit in the second code likely means it was shipped without a ringer? This would potentially make sense where they wouldn't want to stock rarely needed phones with tubes with every imaginable frequency of ringer already installed. Later in model 80/90 phones they went to putting "XX" where the ringer code was to be in phones shipped without a ringer.

So that is ONE explanation for the Z code.

Terry

Offline Jack Ryan

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Re: AE 40, 47 & 50 Base Code Observations (2017!)
« Reply #243 on: January 10, 2017, 10:28:00 PM »
Here's something of interest. A "Z" 50 with a Cold Cathode Tube in it. The drawing inside supports that it was a factory install. I don't know why they couldn't have just used an available 50xx or 51xx even if they wanted it to begin with a "Z". It is Z16631 1 OP.

So just what does having a tube do? Was it to solve ringing problems on unusually long distances from the exchange? Or is it related to frequency ringing on party lines? Would a phone with a tube likely use a frequency ringer? Just wondering if the lack of a ringer digit in the second code likely means it was shipped without a ringer? This would potentially make sense where they wouldn't want to stock rarely needed phones with tubes with every imaginable frequency of ringer already installed. Later in model 80/90 phones they went to putting "XX" where the ringer code was to be in phones shipped without a ringer.

So that is ONE explanation for the Z code.

Terry

It's probably for superimposed ringing. Only one circuit configuration for up to 4 parties with individual ringing - not like frequency ringing where different ringers are required.

There were rare gas relays that were used to help mitigate induced noise.

Regards
Jack

Offline Jack Ryan

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Re: AE 40, 47 & 50 Base Code Observations (2017!)
« Reply #244 on: January 10, 2017, 10:32:37 PM »
Terry ,
          This set has the radio suppressed 51 dial stamped  RU9 on the back.  Pic of the trx and receiver numbers . The rest of the report I sent to you is correct .
           The tiny url is for my report reply #1 , reply 3 and 9 are for GG's AE 47. stub
                  http://tinyurl.com/zqjj3zw
                                       

I was under the impression that all AE 47s had radio interference suppressor dials. I don't remember why I had that impression.

Jack

Offline stub

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Re: AE 40, 47 & 50 Base Code Observations (2017!)
« Reply #245 on: January 10, 2017, 10:33:44 PM »
Terry,
         Here's one for the AE 80 . #3 , Greg ( Brinybay ) has one .   #3             stub
                   double  left click on pic to enlarge
« Last Edit: January 10, 2017, 11:00:15 PM by stub »
Kenneth Stubblefield        
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unbeldi

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Re: AE 40, 47 & 50 Base Code Observations (2017!)
« Reply #246 on: January 10, 2017, 10:44:58 PM »
Here's something of interest. A "Z" 50 with a Cold Cathode Tube in it. The drawing inside supports that it was a factory install. I don't know why they couldn't have just used an available 50xx or 51xx even if they wanted it to begin with a "Z". It is Z16631 1 OP.

So just what does having a tube do? Was it to solve ringing problems on unusually long distances from the exchange? Or is it related to frequency ringing on party lines? Would a phone with a tube likely use a frequency ringer? Just wondering if the lack of a ringer digit in the second code likely means it was shipped without a ringer? This would potentially make sense where they wouldn't want to stock rarely needed phones with tubes with every imaginable frequency of ringer already installed. Later in model 80/90 phones they went to putting "XX" where the ringer code was to be in phones shipped without a ringer.

So that is ONE explanation for the Z code.

Terry


It was used for full-selective four-party line service, or semi-selective eight-party lines.
As we found out a couple days ago, AE had catalog numbers for such sets, 4117, and I compared them to the equivalent WECo 300-type sets.

But there were also other reasons to install an electron tube in a set.  When a station experienced excessive inductive noise due to an imbalance of impedance against ground between the two line wires, because in a conventional ground-ringing system the ringer is always grounded,  they would install a gas diode to provide an almost infinite, several megohms anyways, impedance against ground.

A set with an electron tube should use a ringer with about 2000 ohm DC resistance.  Most of the independents used WECo tubes, and followed WECo example in choice of ringer impedance for this. 

The speculation that this could be marked by "Z" is interesting, because Z is a common symbol in equations for impedance. However, the "handbooks" shown earlier indicate that they used a special catalog/ordering number of those, which makes sense.
« Last Edit: January 11, 2017, 08:36:46 AM by unbeldi »

unbeldi

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Re: AE 40, 47 & 50 Base Code Observations (2017!)
« Reply #247 on: January 10, 2017, 11:02:36 PM »
I was under the impression that all AE 47s had radio interference suppressor dials. I don't remember why I had that impression.

Jack

The AE 40 is normally equipped with a R-C shunt across DP and HS to suppress arcing and RFI.  Perhaps the AE 47 did not have enough room for the resistor, because of the large key assembly, so they move the suppressor directly into the dial ?

Another reason may be that the normal suppressor was too far away from the source of the RFI, so that RFI would be picked up by the alternate CO lines, that were not currently connected to the dial circuit.

I am not so sure the suppressor dials already existed when the AE 47 first came out.  The AE47 was announced in 1949.
« Last Edit: January 10, 2017, 11:07:31 PM by unbeldi »

Offline Jack Ryan

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Re: AE 40, 47 & 50 Base Code Observations (2017!)
« Reply #248 on: January 10, 2017, 11:06:57 PM »
The AE 40 is normally equipped with a R-C shunt across DP and HS to suppress arcing and RFI.  Perhaps the AE 47 did not have enough room for the resistor, because of the large key assembly, so they move the suppressor directly into the dial ?

Another reason may be that the normal suppressor was too far away from the source of the RFI, so that RFI would be picked up by the alternate CO lines, that were not currently connected to the dial circuit.

I am not so sure the suppressor dials already existed when the AE 47 first came out.  It was announced in 1949.

There were suppressor dials and kits to make one back to the Type 24 dial. I think I got that from catalogues.

(I suppose they might have existed before then but I have no catalogues  to check).

Jack

Offline AE_Collector

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Re: AE 40, 47 & 50 Base Code Observations (2017!)
« Reply #249 on: January 10, 2017, 11:40:59 PM »
Okay, thanks everyone for the comments about the tube.

I should have mentioned that this 50 set is an AE Canada made set as well. Maybe for whatever reason AE Canada went with radically different numbering on the sets rather than the 4117 code.

Terry

Offline AE_Collector

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Re: AE 40, 47 & 50 Base Code Observations (2017!)
« Reply #250 on: January 11, 2017, 12:12:48 AM »
Reasonably often I have seen the same two letters show up on transmitter and/or receiver capsules. AE capsules almost always have a two letter code on them though very often they don't match each other or the third base code letters. But of course there is nothing easier to move around or replace than the transmitter and receiver capsules.

I have seen two letter codes on other components in the phone as well though much less regularly than on the capsules. We need to get stub to open up his AE 47 again, in my Base Code survey notes I have recorded that there is an RU9 code on the dial in Stubs 47. Maybe that is correct and maybe it is really RU6 like the third base code on the phone. Check everything on the capsules for us as well Stub.Terry

And there we have it! Stub just posted a picture of the transmitter and receiver capsules in his AE 47. Note the two letter codes stamped on each of them.
Also, the dial has RU9 on the back of it and the Third Base Code is RU6.

Terry
« Last Edit: January 11, 2017, 12:15:27 AM by AE_Collector »

unbeldi

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Re: AE 40, 47 & 50 Base Code Observations (2017!)
« Reply #251 on: January 11, 2017, 08:49:36 AM »
And there we have it! Stub just posted a picture of the transmitter and receiver capsules in his AE 47. Note the two letter codes stamped on each of them.
Also, the dial has RU9 on the back of it and the Third Base Code is RU6.

Terry

I have made similar observations. For example one of my sets has UD marks everywhere.  UD-12 on dial, but UD 6 on the base, where the 6 is almost impossible to read and could be wrong.  However, a -12 does not seem to fit the impression.

A few days ago when looking for sets, I also saw a set on eBay that had the identical mark as another set.

The sets manufactured in Northlake apparently do not have the third group anymore.  Instead they have the date stamped as month-year-code, and I have so far assumed that the <code> was the same as the last digit in the previous format.

It is well possible that the two letters represent either a date or some kind of manufacturing or QA identification.

unbeldi

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Re: AE 40, 47 & 50 Base Code Observations (2017!)
« Reply #252 on: January 11, 2017, 08:57:42 AM »
My  October 1958 Northlake set is coded

L4123ASL    10-58-11

The dial, transmitter, and receiver have "CA" stamped on them.   On the dial it may be CA-5, but the ink is very blurred.
At this time the AE40 sets already used Type 80 RX and TX elements.

This may provide a data point for decoding  CA  <==> 10-58  in case we find that they are equivalent.
« Last Edit: January 11, 2017, 01:32:08 PM by unbeldi »

Offline AE_Collector

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Re: AE 40, 47 & 50 Base Code Observations (2017!)
« Reply #253 on: January 11, 2017, 11:58:14 AM »
Yes that could be a key. I will check the one set that I have with a full date in the third code position (a 47 I believe) to see if I can also find any "two letter codes" in it. Another place that the two letter code frequently shows up is on condesors. Yet, I don't believe I have ever seen these codes on induction coils or ringers.

Any sets that have matching "two letter" codes like yours could then have their manufacture date narrowed down using your patent number process.

Terry

unbeldi

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Re: AE 40, 47 & 50 Base Code Observations (2017!)
« Reply #254 on: January 11, 2017, 01:04:28 PM »
Do you have enough data to limit the digit in the third grouping,  e.g., 12 in UD-12 ?

Frankly, I believe that 12 is largest number I have seen in that position. Perhaps that is only hind-sight and subjective.  But I have been cautious about the correct interpretation of the explicit date codes on Northlake sets, whether Type 40 or 80 Monophones.    Where does the thought come from that the third number is not part of the date?

In the sets that I have seen, the format could easily be  code-year-month or month-year-code.

For example, my 10-58-11 set, could easily  be October 1958, or November 1958.

On AE 80 sets, I have seen dates formatted as such:   5 70 21,  in which case this clearly appears as complete date:  Month Year Day, or does it mean dayofweek Year week ?
PS: should set this aside, I think, probably not related to the interpretation of code so much earlier.
« Last Edit: January 11, 2017, 01:30:50 PM by unbeldi »