Author Topic: AE 40, 47 & 50 Base Code Observations (2017!)  (Read 20067 times)

Offline AE_Collector

  • Global Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 7448
  • AE 2 - AECo's 1st Self Contained Desk Phone 1925
Re: AE 40, 47 & 50 Base Code Observations (2017!)
« Reply #285 on: January 30, 2017, 01:39:03 PM »
I think that AE's Mahogany and Walnut are quite similar to each other. I always assumed that Mahogany would be the phones with black and light brown swirled bakelite where as Walnut phones would be black and dark brown swirled bakelite. Until I can find one of each in the same place to compare I don think I will be able to figure it out for certain! To my way of thinking, the color variations within Mahogany should be more than within Walnut.

But that is just what I think Mahogany and Walnut would be like compared to each other. Even if we find several A coded phones that seem slightly different from several B coded phones, we then have to figure out which ones officially are Mahogany versus Walnut! Someone must know!

Here again is what we know about color codes so far:

_ - Black
_ - Walnut  (suspect code B but not enough samples yet)
_ - Mahogany (suspect code A but not enough samples yet)
F - Chinese Red
E - Old Ivory
D - Jade Green
J - Nile Green
G - Royal Blue
H - Orchid
_ - Maroon

http://www.classicrotaryphones.com/forum/index.php?topic=17454.msg180466#msg180466

Terry
« Last Edit: January 30, 2017, 01:45:21 PM by AE_Collector »

Offline rdelius

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1815
Re: AE 40, 47 & 50 Base Code Observations (2017!)
« Reply #286 on: February 01, 2017, 09:01:12 PM »
Somewhat related but type 34a3 colors mentioned in Modern Plastics magazine about 1934-5

Offline AE_Collector

  • Global Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 7448
  • AE 2 - AECo's 1st Self Contained Desk Phone 1925
Re: AE 40, 47 & 50 Base Code Observations (2017!)
« Reply #287 on: February 03, 2017, 12:33:24 AM »
At some point we (Unbeldi and myself) were discussing the constant use of codes A0 by AE. "A" being a dial type and "0" an indicator of a SL ringer but even on subsets that don't have dials. Not that this helps much but I think it is actually "A Oh" not "A Zero" in those odd scenarios. Note the AO- code for a 32 ringer versus the L-1504 code on the next row on this AE43 Spacesaver Technical Bulletin. First one is O and it is different than the 0 (zero).

Not that this clarifies much, leave it to AE to use A0 and AO in the same place but at least it explains a little bit.

Terry
« Last Edit: February 03, 2017, 09:54:52 AM by AE_Collector »

Offline AE_Collector

  • Global Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 7448
  • AE 2 - AECo's 1st Self Contained Desk Phone 1925
Re: AE 40, 47 & 50 Base Code Observations (2017!)
« Reply #288 on: February 03, 2017, 12:52:33 AM »
I have scanned my AE40, 43 & 50 Technical Bulletins (installer pocket guides) and am now just waiting for them to be added to the TCI Library.

I think I already posted that:

L4123 with Drawing D-53940-A is a standard 40
L4107 with Drawing D-530019-A is a 40 with SATT A dial
L4119 with Drawing D-530131-A is a 40 with a SATT B dial
L4117 with Drawing D-530031-A is a 40 with Superimposed ringing

Here are the equivalent AE50's:

L5100 with Drawing D-53702-A is a standard 50
L5107 with Drawing D-530037-A is a 50 with SATT A dial
L5112 with Drawing D-530130-A is a 50 with a SATT B dial
L5110 with Drawing D-530032-A is a 50 with Superimposed ringing

Terry

Offline RotoTech99

  • ****
  • Posts: 483
Re: AE 40, 47 & 50 Base Code Observations (2017!)
« Reply #289 on: February 03, 2017, 07:34:20 AM »
 Very good information, that had me wondering too.


I would wager the the black with chrome sets fit also have similar coding.

Rototech99

unbeldi

  • Guest
Re: AE 40, 47 & 50 Base Code Observations (2017!)
« Reply #290 on: February 03, 2017, 08:00:39 AM »
At some point we (Unbeldi and myself) were discussing the constant use of codes A0 by AE. "A" being a dial type and "0" an indicator of a SL ringer but even on subsets that don't have dials. Not that this helps much but I think it is actually "A Oh" not "A Zero" in those odd scenarios. Note the AO- code for a 33 ringer versus the L-1504 code on the next row on this AE43 Spacesaver Technical Bulletin. First one is O and it is different than the 0 (zero).

Not that this clarifies much, leave it to AE to use A0 and AO in the same place but at least it explains a little bit.

Terry

I agree that printed documentation makes this apparent distinction.  The first catalog in which the 34A3 appeared also appears to use AO (letter O). The stampings on phones is inconclusive usually, as they seem to use the same character for letter  "O" and zero "0".  I have been watching for any difference between the obvious zero and O on sets that are labeled like  N 4020 A0 or AO, and I have not been able to discern a distinction.   On ringer and magneto boxes, such as L-594 A0 and L-594 B0, I could not decide either and  I still don't know what the difference A vs. B means on the AE Magneto Battery Box.
« Last Edit: February 03, 2017, 08:56:06 AM by unbeldi »

Offline RotoTech99

  • ****
  • Posts: 483
Re: AE 40, 47 & 50 Base Code Observations (2017!)
« Reply #291 on: February 03, 2017, 06:19:48 PM »
Dear AE Collector:

Glad to hear you got the pocket reference manuals scanned and are waiting for them to be added into the TCI Library;
I look forward to seeing them. Will you also post links here on this topic to give quick access?

Great work getting them scanned in, and Thanks.

RotoTech99


Offline RotoTech99

  • ****
  • Posts: 483
Re: AE 40, 47 & 50 Base Code Observations (2017!)
« Reply #292 on: February 04, 2017, 05:43:48 PM »
Dear Forum:

I am enjoying how this topic is progressing... I'm still looking around for examples of the colors we haven't classified yet.

I look forward to updates on it

Rototech99

Offline RotoTech99

  • ****
  • Posts: 483
Re: AE 40, 47 & 50 Base Code Observations (2017!)
« Reply #293 on: February 06, 2017, 05:08:06 PM »
Dear Forum:

I asked awhile back if someone had a guess on what my converted AE40's code would be after conversion from a LB to a CB one..

The straight line condenser &  D-56515A st. line ringer, non SATT (std.) dial with letter & numbers, and straight
 black handset cord gives me the code L-4123 ESLT

With the help of AE Collector's AE 40 handbook and comparison of my sets internal configuration and a couple of other things, I determined my conversion created a standard AE40 (L4123).

figuring out the codes for the chrome trim (handset bands, chrome lift bar, and fingerwheel) will tell me more, but as there is a hodgepodge of date codes, knowing the year of manufacture is not likely

RotoTech99
« Last Edit: February 06, 2017, 05:20:59 PM by RotoTech99 »

Offline RotoTech99

  • ****
  • Posts: 483
Re: AE 40, 47 & 50 Base Code Observations (2017!)
« Reply #294 on: February 08, 2017, 07:15:06 AM »
Dear AE collector:

In regard to Reply #46 where you had the "A." and "D" dial codes marked "Dunno". in which of the field handbooks did the "A" and "D" codes appear, please?

Also, do you have a field handbook for the AE47, please?

All assistance, advice, and comments appreciated and welcomed.

RotoTech99

Offline RotoTech99

  • ****
  • Posts: 483
Re: AE 40, 47 & 50 Base Code Observations (2017!)
« Reply #295 on: February 08, 2017, 09:01:57 AM »
Quote
Dear Forum:

Here is a thought on the AE 40 color codes we have... Any comments and advice and feedback are welcomed.

Presently, we have codes D, E, F, G  H, and J; if the numeral associated with the letter for the color is used/ considered, we have six of the 9 or 10 colors; 9 if you don't count black, ten if you do count black and/or find the documents confirming black as a 10th color with the appropriate designation.

Of course,there are still Walnut, Mahogany, and Maroon to find the color code letter for.

What do ye good people of the Forum say on this. insuring minds want to know.

RotoTech99

.
« Last Edit: February 08, 2017, 09:04:35 AM by RotoTech99 »

Offline AE_Collector

  • Global Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 7448
  • AE 2 - AECo's 1st Self Contained Desk Phone 1925
Re: AE 40, 47 & 50 Base Code Observations (2017!)
« Reply #296 on: February 12, 2017, 02:05:48 PM »
So we have another confirmation of H being the color code for Orchid with the current Orchid AE40 auction contest. To date several colored AE's have been seen that are completely missing the color code letter on the Base Codes but I haven't seen a single discrepancy in color codes/actual code from all the phones that have the color code letter on the base.

I was looking at an AE21 metal wall phone of mine...actually a 21A I think? It seems original except the dial was probably added in the field after the areas conversion to automatic. Please excuse the poor quality pictures below, I will try to take better pictures.

At some point either one if the condensers was replaced or maybe it had been used in conjunction with an existing subset so didn't gave a ringer and condenser in the phone? It still doesn't have a ringer but maybe someone borrowed it before I got the phone.

In support of my theory that the "two letter codes" are somehow a date indicator, compare these two condensers. The first one (black) obviously original to the phone is dated 3-29. The second newer condenser (gray) has IDENTICAL information (now) ink stamped onto it except for the AE name change from inc to co and the fact that the Date is no longer directly indicated but seems to be replaced with a two letter code.

The dial seems to be a type 24 with oval AE logo and it clicks when being wound up.

Note the bulldog transmitter also has the oval AE logo but it also has a part number "Type 6C1" and a two letter code RO. This makes me wonder if the transmitter in this phone was updated some time after 3-29 (when it was likely made) or if two letter codes were being used on some components by 1929. If the transmitter were updated in 1940 or later wouldn't it be changed to a AECo 41 capsule? But then we're back to WW2 timeframe and if they still had these type 6C1 transmitters in stock they were going to be used rather than being junked.

Terry
« Last Edit: February 12, 2017, 02:50:50 PM by AE_Collector »

unbeldi

  • Guest
Re: AE 40, 47 & 50 Base Code Observations (2017!)
« Reply #297 on: February 12, 2017, 02:48:22 PM »
So we have another confirmation of H being the color code for Orchid with the current Orchid AE40 auction contest. To date several colored AE's have been seen that are completely missing the color code letter on the Base Codes but I haven't seen a single discrepancy in color codes.

I was looking at an AE21 metal wall phone of mine...actually a 21A I think? It seems original except the dial was probably added in the field after the areas conversion to automatic. Please excuse the poor quality pictures below, I will try to take better pictures.

At some point either one if the condensers was replaced or maybe it had been used in conjunction with an existing subset so didn't gave a ringer and condenser in the phone? It still doesn't have a ringer but maybe someone borrowed it before I got the phone.

In support of my theory that the "two letter codes" are somehow a date indicator, compare these two condensers. The first one (black) obviously original to the phone is dated 3-29. The second newer condenser (gray) has IDENTICAL information (now) ink stamped onto it except for the AE name change from inc to co and the fact that the Date is no longer directly indicated but seems to be replaced with a two letter code.

The dial seems to be a type 24 with oval AE logo and it clicks when being wound up.

Note the bulldog transmitter also has the oval AE logo but it also has a part number "Type 6C1" and a two letter code RO. This makes me wonder if the transmitter in this phone was updated some time after 3-29 (when it was likely made) or if two letter codes were being used on some components by 1929. If the transmitter were updated in 1940 or later wouldn't it be changed to a AECo 41 capsule? But then we're back to WW2 timeframe and if they still had these type 6C1 transmitters in stock they were going to be used rather than being junked.

Terry

It is certainly within reason that the two-letter codes are an encoding of some time period.  25 letter by 25ódiscounting the letter Iógives 625 time periods. When the codes exhaust, the sequencing starts from the beginning. Such systems are known from companies such as Siemens & Halske, which used a single letter to denote years, with a recycle time of 25 years.

My database of markings from AE types 34, 40, 43, 44, 47, 50  seems to tell me that either the recycle time is short or that the two letters are listed in reverse of significance.  If the time period was months, that would account for 52 years of codes.  However, the diversity of letters over the time period of only the AE40, casts some doubt to that assignment.  It also seems that the codes are likely not specific to a product line, but likely valid across all products.  It started long before the AE 40 came out.
« Last Edit: February 12, 2017, 02:50:57 PM by unbeldi »

Offline AE_Collector

  • Global Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 7448
  • AE 2 - AECo's 1st Self Contained Desk Phone 1925
Re: AE 40, 47 & 50 Base Code Observations (2017!)
« Reply #298 on: February 12, 2017, 03:09:19 PM »
My AE21 example shows AE using 3-29 obviously month-year. Then in the late 50's they went back to the 11-58-?? Coding so they used a Month-Year first in both instances. So the two letter codes following this date format somehow would make sense. I might make a big list of all two letter codes that I have seen just to see if certain letters don't seem to have been used and if I can find any other patterns. You mentioned skipping letter I to avoid confusion with 1 and O/0 could likely be omitted then as well.

Terry

unbeldi

  • Guest
Re: AE 40, 47 & 50 Base Code Observations (2017!)
« Reply #299 on: February 12, 2017, 03:36:11 PM »
My AE21 example shows AE using 3-29 obviously month-year. Then in the late 50's they went back to the 11-58-?? Coding so they used a Month-Year first in both instances. So the two letter codes following this date format somehow would make sense. I might make a big list of all two letter codes that I have seen just to see if certain letters don't seem to have been used and if I can find any other patterns. You mentioned skipping letter I to avoid confusion with 1 and O/0 could likely be omitted then as well.

Terry

Letter O is certainly present, I have many examples of it:  OJ7, OZ7, OZ9, LO1,...
Both positions of the group seem to span from A to Z, so that a clean separation of year/month coding does not seem to apply.