Author Topic: Automatic Electric Co Type 40, 50, etc Patent Label reference  (Read 3298 times)

unbeldi

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Re: Automatic Electric Co Type 40, 50, etc Patent Label reference
« Reply #15 on: January 13, 2017, 12:40:36 PM »
Here are the new labels that appear to be from the year when AE moved from Chicago 7 to Northlake.

In form number D-780575 all patent numbers have been removed and the label simply functions as a Trademark label for the US and Canada.

unbeldi

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Re: Automatic Electric Co Type 40, 50, etc Patent Label reference
« Reply #16 on: January 14, 2017, 10:50:35 AM »
Similar labels were applied to the AE 80 sets, which also were converted to simple trademark labels as shown here.
It's perhaps a bit of a diversion here, but I think we need to look at the other telephone types a little for assistance in decoding the 40 and 50-type designations.   To me it seems that the themes of the markings almost continuously extended through the product lines, going back the Monophones in the 1930s, perhaps earlier, but especially the 34A3.

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Re: Automatic Electric Co Type 40, 50, etc Patent Label reference
« Reply #17 on: January 14, 2017, 05:03:39 PM »
Agreed! There are definitely similarities in the coding between 40's and 80's and as we have discussed recently the 34 sets also had "L" codes like many of the 40's had. Comparisons of codes from before and after the AE 40 timeframe will certainly help.

Terry
« Last Edit: January 15, 2017, 01:44:51 AM by AE_Collector »

unbeldi

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Re: Automatic Electric Co Type 40, 50, etc Patent Label reference
« Reply #18 on: January 18, 2017, 10:32:21 PM »
Does any one have an AE 40 with a label like this ?
It should be a local battery set without dial and possibly with external magneto generator box.

I cannot be sure of the decal number:   D-780504-A5    Is it A5 or A3 ?

=====
PS: It seems to be  A3 !

« Last Edit: February 01, 2017, 08:34:20 PM by unbeldi »

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Re: Automatic Electric Co Type 40, 50, etc Patent Label reference
« Reply #19 on: January 27, 2017, 07:11:42 PM »
So what is this 780613 gold sticker on Stockdale's AE40?

http://www.classicrotaryphones.com/forum/index.php?topic=5762.0

Terry

unbeldi

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Re: Automatic Electric Co Type 40, 50, etc Patent Label reference
« Reply #20 on: January 27, 2017, 07:37:53 PM »
So what is this 780613 gold sticker on Stockdale's AE40?

http://www.classicrotaryphones.com/forum/index.php?topic=5762.0

Terry

I have that label from that phone in my collection already. I think I may have responded in that topic.
It is rather strange, because it is essentially the same as the other 1952 labels, but this one is has the location listed as "Chicago", rather than Chicago 7.
I don't think it is a gold decal, but white paper sticker, that has yellowed or has some kind of spray on it.
I don't quite know what to make of it, it could well be fake—it seems typewritten with a more modern type writer. The font type seems different than other decals.


« Last Edit: January 27, 2017, 07:41:42 PM by unbeldi »

unbeldi

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Re: Automatic Electric Co Type 40, 50, etc Patent Label reference
« Reply #21 on: January 27, 2017, 07:42:23 PM »
Here is my worked-up image of that label.

Except for the patent numbers themselves, it looks rather authentic.

It has the same patents as the D-780504-A41 label, plus one, namely US2068700, which was a dial patent of 1937.  Don't understand why this was still on here. It doesn't fit the pattern for label after 1948 or so.
« Last Edit: January 27, 2017, 07:49:43 PM by unbeldi »

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Re: Automatic Electric Co Type 40, 50, etc Patent Label reference
« Reply #22 on: January 27, 2017, 07:58:00 PM »
Yes, paper label. I didn't notice that initially and automatically I called it a gold decal. Being a Chicago rather than Chicago 7 it is early from when other phones had ink stamps or paper labels on felt bases. So one other variation of a paper label on the bottom rather than n ink stamp and maybe before gold decals began or possibly due to war shortages again.

Terry
« Last Edit: November 18, 2017, 10:16:25 PM by AE_Collector »

unbeldi

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Re: Automatic Electric Co Type 40, 50, etc Patent Label reference
« Reply #23 on: January 27, 2017, 08:05:36 PM »
Yes, paper label. I didn't notice that initially and automatically called it a gold decal. Being a Chicago rather than Chicago 7 it is early when other phones had ink stamps or paper labels on felt bases. So one other variation of a paper label on the bottom rather than ink stamp and maybe before gold decals began or possibly war shortages again.

Terry

Well, the designation of only "Chicago" must be wrong.  It was either an error, or  the label is fake and someone created a blank (no patents) label and typed the patents on the blank with a typewriter.  The label contains two patents that were assigned much later after the postal zoning of 1943.

The form number D-780504 was created around 1942 or so.  D-780504-A1 already bears "Chicago 7".  This form number is only a little larger, so was perhaps also still created before the cutover.  We have to look for other examples, perhaps on other telephone types.
« Last Edit: January 27, 2017, 08:11:17 PM by unbeldi »

unbeldi

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Fake AE patent labels
« Reply #24 on: January 28, 2017, 11:59:10 AM »
I brought up that the label D-780613 could possibly be a fake.   This is speculation based on the obvious discrepancy between postal zone and patent numbers cited.

However, collectors should be aware that truly fake decals are being distributed by eBay sellers. One such seller, oldphoneshop, places the same fake labels on all kinds of AE telephones, without regard to model, type, or manufacturing period.  Upon inquiry, the seller was even rude and defended the labels as original and present as found. These are high-priced telephones, nicely refinished.  Buyer beware.   The seller even places this one type of decal on Type 35 wall phones.

The decal is for a Type 40 desk set, manufactured ca. 1948 to 1949.
These labels are easily recognized by the omission of one digit ("5") in the form number, as can be seen in the lower left corner of the attached image.
« Last Edit: January 28, 2017, 12:15:07 PM by unbeldi »

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Re: Automatic Electric Co Type 40, 50, etc Patent Label reference
« Reply #25 on: January 28, 2017, 12:07:14 PM »
Yes good point. I knew that there was a reproduction version out there. I wonder if there has just been the one reproduction produced for collectors and refurbishers. Good to see that someone seems to have at least gone out of their way to remove the 5 to make it more identifiable by those in the know.

Thanks for posting the image along with the explanation.

Terry

unbeldi

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Fake AE patent labels
« Reply #26 on: January 28, 2017, 12:23:03 PM »
Here are samples of the original versions of that fake label.
Looking closely, you will find small variations in details, but all bear the same patent numbers.
The label was issued as water decal and as an ink stamp (first and last image).
« Last Edit: January 28, 2017, 12:26:49 PM by unbeldi »

unbeldi

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Automatic Electric Co Type 44 labels
« Reply #27 on: February 08, 2017, 03:50:44 PM »
Does anyone have a Type 44 Monophone that has a golden decal on it ?  The Type 44 was a metal box wall subscriber set with a dial in the front and a Type 41 handset on the side.

AE also made a Type 42 wall set with handheld receiver, but I think it may have no longer been made by the time AE introduced the decals. I have only seen them with an ink stamp of patents. From the outside it looked essentially identical to a Type 21  (21+21 = 42, an overtone,  8)).


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Re: Automatic Electric Co Type 40, 50, etc Patent Label reference
« Reply #28 on: February 08, 2017, 05:00:25 PM »
Yes, I have one. Stub has one as well but my notes indicate that his has no gold decal or ink stamp listing patents or patent years.

Here is info for my AE44:

Decal is D-780575-A15. Chicago 7. 4 patent years 1939, 1943, 1945 & 1953 listed.

Base code is another example of the H#'s. H870729 25 PD-4.
That H # is identical to the number on one of my AE 47 sets.
The AE47 has H870729 18 PD-8 on its base and has the exact same Chicago 7 decal on it, H87079 A13.

Both these phones were in use in BC. I wonder if that particular H number could be for a phone made in USA for Canada? Or for BC Tel in Canada? Odd there is no reference to the normal L or N type numbers at all.

Terry

unbeldi

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Re: Automatic Electric Co Type 40, 50, etc Patent Label reference
« Reply #29 on: February 08, 2017, 05:21:58 PM »
Yes, I have one. Stub has one as well but my notes indicate that his has no gold decal or ink stamp listing patents or patent years.

Here is info for my AE44:

Decal is D-780575-A15. Chicago 7. 4 patent years 1939, 1943, 1945 & 1953 listed.

Base code is another example of the H#'s. H870729 25 PD-4.
That H # is identical to the number on one of my AE 47 sets.
The AE47 has H870729 18 PD-8 on its base and has the exact same Chicago 7 decal on it, H87079 A13.

Both these phones were in use in BC. I wonder if that particular H number could be for a phone made in USA for Canada? Or for BC Tel in Canada? Odd there is no reference to the normal L or N type numbers at all.

Terry

Interesting that it has only years on it.  The only other AE sets with patent years are usually the sets made in Brockville, Ontario.
Perhaps these were for export to Canadian customers, for whom it would perhaps be awkward to see US patents on instruments.  By using years, the label is perhaps legally applicable to Canada, as AE filed many patents in Canada as well.