Author Topic: 2 piece payphone question/wiring  (Read 2070 times)

Offline poplar1

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Re: 2 piece payphone question/wiring
« Reply #15 on: January 18, 2017, 11:06:41 AM »
Can you remove the black rubber cover near the top of the lower housing to see if the induction coil is marked 101A or 101B?

The closest diagram I could find in the TCI library is for the Western Electric 181-G, which is similar to the 195 but was for a 5c deposit rather than 10c. There are two diagrams: the top one for a phone with 101B induction coil, and the bottom one for the 101A.

http://www.telephonecollectors.info/index.php/browse/doc_details/2137-coin-collectors-181-tl

The line connects to R and Y on the switch hook pileup. The receiver connects to W on the switch hook pileup and to R on the induction coil.

You may have to run a longer wire to the transmitter if you want to follow this diagram. The long transmitter wire then would connect to R on the induction coil and the short wire to BKX terminal in the upper housing.

(There would be a way to get rid of this long wire arrangement, by not using the small 636A coin signal transmitter shown in your picture. That transmitter was necessary for the operator to hear the coins being deposited when the phones had handsets. When they had transmitter mounted directly on the front of the phone, the additional 636A transmitter wasn't needed, since the coin sounds were picked up by the main transmitter.)

Unfortunately, there's no telling what the previous owner did to get the phone "working", if he/she  ever did.
"C'est pas une restauration, c'est une rénovation."--François Martin.

Offline andre_janew

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Re: 2 piece payphone question/wiring
« Reply #16 on: January 18, 2017, 05:03:18 PM »
I do remember seeing a pay phone like this one in a catalog somewhere.  Chicago Old Telephone?  Phoneco?  It was a newer model that they fixed up to look like an older one.

Offline ffontana

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Re: 2 piece payphone question/wiring
« Reply #17 on: January 18, 2017, 05:05:09 PM »
OK.  Moving right along.....


I soldered new wires to the transmitter.  There is an outer ring and the center button.  Does it matter which goes to R on the induction coil and which goes to BKX?
(I have the 101B induction coil).
 I am not sure of the reference to 'long wire arrangement".

Also,  the dialer has 5 wires.  The wires run to the contact points that mate with the lower housing.
White  runs to W
Red runs to R
Blue runs to BB
Yellow runs to Y
Black currently runs to BKX.
Should this be moved to BK?

I noticed a small device 636-B in parallel with a resistor and running to Y and BB.
Also what appears to be a filter running to screws A and E on the coin mechanics.


Thank you for the help.




Offline ffontana

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Re: 2 piece payphone question/wiring
« Reply #18 on: January 18, 2017, 05:15:44 PM »
Mr. Janew,

Anything is possible as I am not very familiar with vintage phones.  Like all of our antiques, my wife suggests/buys and I research to see how bad we were taken advantage of after the fact.
 
The upper housing does appear to have some age.
The dialer shows Northern Electric as well as the speaker housing.

The lower housing shows Western Electric above the coin return and is stamped 195 HX inside and on the back plate.

Is it possible the Canadians used the western electric lower housing with the northern electric upper?

I have no idea.  The two housings do have a good fit and the contacts seem to line up well.

Thank you, for the info/ interest.




Offline poplar1

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Re: 2 piece payphone question/wiring
« Reply #19 on: January 18, 2017, 06:23:36 PM »
The center contact of the transmitter (black handset wire on the diagram) would go to BKX and the outer transmitter contact to R on the 101 induction coil (red handset wire on the diagram). However, it will work either way.

I think the upper housing was originally with the 195-HX backplate. The  part  with coin vault and coin return may have been from a later WE phone such as a 223-G.

WE 195 was the first model with pull bucket, but did not have a coin release button in the upper right. (The 197 had both features.) The pull buckets on the 195 were originally black (Bakelite?) and the part you pulled was not as thick as the one you now have.

Did you determine whether you have a 101A or 101B induction coil? The coil is hidden by the black rubber cover in the photo.
"C'est pas une restauration, c'est une rénovation."--François Martin.

Offline rdelius

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Re: 2 piece payphone question/wiring
« Reply #20 on: January 18, 2017, 10:48:52 PM »
The coin tracks on 2 piece paystations would not need a coin transmitter. the one you talked into would transmit the coin tones.You could trying disconnecting the coin transmitter and wiring the outside transmitter in its place .I am not aware on any 2 piece paystations with pull buckets



i

Offline ffontana

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Re: 2 piece payphone question/wiring
« Reply #21 on: January 19, 2017, 06:59:52 PM »
Thank you all for your continued info.
 I wired the phone as suggested but I do not have the phone functioning.  I found the attached schematic online.  The receiver functions wired to BBX and W.  I have the line in to R and Y.  The phone does not dial out or ring when I call it.  I call it and answer, I can hear in the receiver but cannot transmit.  I tried the dial wiring to color coordinate to the contacts.  I also wired according to the attached schematic.
There is an exact picture on line of the lower housing of the 195 HX exactly like what I have.  It is not clear enough to follow the wiring.

The induction coil is a 101B

Offline poplar1

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Re: 2 piece payphone question/wiring
« Reply #22 on: January 19, 2017, 07:07:17 PM »
Those diagrams are for use with a separate 634YD or 634YE subset. Notice that the 101B in these diagrams are "not used." There are no wires connected to it. This is a completely different way of connecting the phone.

Also, there is no ringer inside a 195-type phone, unless someone added it. Rather, the ringer was in a separate box such as a 531A.
"C'est pas une restauration, c'est une rénovation."--François Martin.

Offline poplar1

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Re: 2 piece payphone question/wiring
« Reply #23 on: January 19, 2017, 07:34:31 PM »
Here is the diagram used for a 195H. (Left click to enlarge it.)

The line connects (green) to R (on the switch assembly) and  (red) to Y. (Ground wire not needed for home use.)
The receiver (shown as white and red wires from the handset) goes to W and to R (the R terminal on the 101B).
The transmitter (shown as black and red wires from the handset) goes to BKX and to R (R on the 101B).

Dial connects as follows to the terminal block inside the upper housing:
Yellow from Y on dial to Y terminal
Black from BK on dial to BK terminal
Red from R on dial to R terminal
Blue (or green) from BB on dial to BB
White from W on dial to W terminal


Note that there are only 2 wires from this phone to the "external subscriber set" (ringer). The diagram you posted has several wires between the phone and the 634YD/E subset.

Reference: BSP Section 506-319-406, Issue 3, April, 1959.
« Last Edit: January 19, 2017, 08:37:49 PM by poplar1 »
"C'est pas une restauration, c'est une rénovation."--François Martin.

Offline ffontana

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Re: 2 piece payphone question/wiring
« Reply #24 on: January 29, 2017, 12:34:08 PM »
Thank you for the drawing.  This resembles closely to what I have.
I wired as suggested and the same result.
I call the phone and the receive works fine.
I cannot transmit (dead) and I cannot dial.  I dial and the dial tone remains between each number dialed and does not seem to register.
 I assumed the following on the drawing: (picture as reference)
The device 636-B is the "signal transmitter" shown on the drawing?
There is a resistor in parallel so I assumed.....
there is a large device in parallel with the electro magnet which both land on terminals A and E of the upper housing.
I am assuming this is the cap #452B.
Since this is attempting to be a 2 piece, I ran a direct wire from one side of the transmitter (upper housing) to R on the 101B of the lower housing.
I ran the other side to the BKX terminal on the upper housing.

SEVERAL QUESTIONS:

Any thoughts on getting the transmit and dial to function?
What needs jumpered and where to bypass the coin function?
Is it possible this upper housing just wont work with this lower housing  (I should give up)?
Is there a very reliable shop I can send this to to get functioning?

Thank you all for reading and responding, especially Poplar1.

Thanks to All.....


Offline poplar1

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Re: 2 piece payphone question/wiring
« Reply #25 on: January 29, 2017, 03:08:02 PM »
Any thoughts on getting the transmit and dial to function?

I would try connecting a handset (as in the diagram) before attempting to use the separate transmitter and receiver.

What needs jumpered and where to bypass the coin function?

If you want to bypass the signal transmitter (636A) and electromagnet, you can move the black dial wire from BK to BKX. You don't have to disconnect the coin relay since you already have no ground wire connected.

Is it possible this upper housing just wont work with this lower housing  (I should give up)?

That appears to be the correct upper housing and backplate assembly for a 195H. The only parts that are not original are the WE part with coin return and vault, the old-style transmitter and receiver, the brassed out switch hook,  and the cords.

Is there a very reliable shop I can send this to to get functioning?

Stan S. or payphone installer here on the forum can probably help you more than I have been able to.

On some models, you have to insert one coin (one time) into the hopper, or push down on the coin trigger inside the hopper. This is necessary only if you have a coin relay that shorts out the dial pulsing contacts until a coin removes the short.
"C'est pas une restauration, c'est une rénovation."--François Martin.

Offline poplar1

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Re: 2 piece payphone question/wiring
« Reply #26 on: January 29, 2017, 03:32:05 PM »
Do you have a more recent photo of the lower housing, showing all the connections on the switchhook pileup?

There should also be a jumper from BBX (where the gray 37A varistor is screwed on) to BB (the terminal just below BBX on the pileup).
"C'est pas une restauration, c'est une rénovation."--François Martin.

Offline trainman

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Re: 2 piece payphone question/wiring
« Reply #27 on: January 30, 2017, 07:00:28 AM »
The upper housing has no Coin Return button. So the upper housing was from  two piece phone in the past.

When the phone compay rebuilt them into one piece units, they mounted the instruction card holder under the dial. if you have the 4 holes for the instruction card holder screws, then this was rebuilt from a two piece. if the holes are absent, this was always a two piece upper housing.

another thing to consider. when the phones were worthless back in the day, a number of phone resellers simply used what they had on hand to make compete phones to sell.  this was like in the 1970s, early 1980s.

Ive seen the reseller creation use 233 or 236 tops with 195 or even older bottoms. just using whatever load of parts they probably bought direct from the phone company as scrap back when they were pulled from service.

Offline Stan S

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Re: 2 piece payphone question/wiring
« Reply #28 on: January 30, 2017, 08:18:56 AM »
Let's take a breath.
Lots of irrelevant information floating around.

The coin relay in that bottom has dial shorting contacts. Not the type of coin relay with shorting contacts commonly found in a more modern 223.

That relay has the original set of contacts like the ones used in a 50G coin relay. An 'up and over' contact was added to that assembly. The extra contact can barely be seen poking up and bent above the original set of coil contacts. That's what the 'X' in the 195HX signifies. By the way, that is one very rare coin relay.

You can probably get the phone to dial if you disconnect ALL the wires that come out of the coin relay. That assumes the dial is properly calibrated and the dial wiring harness is connected correctly at the dial end. If the phone doesn't dial after you disconnect all the coin relay wires I'd take the top apart and make sure the harness wires are connected to the proper screws on the dial.

If the rest of the phone is properly wired to the 101 coil, when you disconnect the transmitter and take the phone off hook you should hear NOTHING in the receiver. With no transmitter connected if you are getting a dial tone the bottom is miswired.
The phone if properly wired should behave exactly like a working 302. Remove the transmitter and the phone never goes off hook.

Stan S.


Offline ffontana

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Re: 2 piece payphone question/wiring
« Reply #29 on: February 05, 2017, 12:57:21 PM »
I have tried several suggestions.  Still no luck.  I can receive fine when the phone is called.  Still no transmit and dialing doesn't register.
I have attached my crude drawings of both the upper and lower housings with all components shown. 

Anyone feeling ambitious can draw in the correct wiring connections.

Any help is greatly appreciated.

Thank you,