Author Topic: Identify 1960s-70s(?) Wall Mounting Box (Read 1509 times)

Nick in Manitou · « **on:** February 23, 2017, 12:51:39 PM »

We are starting the remodel of a house built in 1970.

In the kitchen was a small bulletin board. Behind it was a Western Electric box, built into the wall and I assume that it was for use with a panel phone of that era.

I have done some searching on this forum and on the internet and I can't find the spec for the box that panel phones would have been mounted into. One photo I saw online seemed to show a box deeper than the approx 1 3/4" depth of the box I found.

The box has "Western Electric", "Bell System Property Not For Sale" and "113" stamped into the metal. The 113 is followed by a 'D' stamped in black ink.

There is a removable flange on one side and a loop of chain (for wire retention?) attached to the box as well.

Any input on what type of phone would have used this sort of in-wall box?

Thanks,
Nick

poplar1 · « **Reply #1 on:** February 23, 2017, 01:51:59 PM »

These apparatus boxes were "intended for use with flush wall mounting panel type telephone sets where
concealed wiring is used."

113D is "intended for use in new construction where drywall material is used."

TCI Library:
http://telephonecollectors.info/index.php/document-repository/doc_details/12066-463-121-110-i2-jun69-apparatus-boxes-for-panel-sets-id-inst

poplar1 · « **Reply #2 on:** February 23, 2017, 01:58:25 PM »

c) Design Features

113-Type Apparatus Box

• Dimensions are 8-9/16 inches wide by 11-9/16
inches high by 1-5/8 inches deep. Cabling
knockouts are distributed on all sides and
on the back of the boxes.

• Used to flush wall-mount a 750-, 751-, 1750-,
1751-, or 1753-type telephone set.

• 752-, 754-, 1752-, or 1754-type telephone set
can be partially recessed in a 113-type
apparatus box by using a D-180039 or
D-180040 Kit of Parts (see installation section
for the particular set used).

jsowers · « **Reply #3 on:** February 23, 2017, 03:20:05 PM »

For those who haven't seen one, here is something from Paul's site on the 2750 Panel Phone. There's also a 750 rotary version and they came in "silver" with a white handset and light gray frame, and "copper" with a light beige handset and frame. The copper ones were evidently more popular than the silver ones because they seem to show up for sale more often.

http://www.paul-f.com/we2500typ.html#Panel

Nick, it would be great if you could re-use the box and get a silver or copper panel phone to go back into your kitchen. Is there phone wiring in the wall where the box was? The color combination of light gray walls with white trim that's all over HGTV is a perfect match for a silver panel phone.

Panel phones that are complete don't come cheaply and the frames are made of thin, brittle plastic and often chip and crack. A quick search of eBay shows two copper 750 panel phones sold for $110.50 and $127.50. Their touch-tone brethren sell for even more.

If you decide not to install a panel phone, the device box would probably sell well on eBay because that piece is often missing.

I have a phone collecting friend who has a copper 1750 panel phone mounted in his media room, a new addition to his house. It's the 10-button version of the panel phone and quite a rare bird. Here are some pictures.

paul-f · « **Reply #4 on:** February 23, 2017, 04:04:47 PM »

There's info on an "as found" box here:

http://www.classicrotaryphones.com/forum/index.php?topic=12840.0

and there's info in BSP 463-121-110 Issue 2, June 1969 in the TCI Library

Jim Stettler · « **Reply #5 on:** February 23, 2017, 05:40:39 PM »

Nick,
I just came across a panel phone (Monday) that I had packed away, I didn't unwrap it to see if it is WE or AE. I know it needs a can. The box that it is packed in is distinctive, so I can easily relocate it. I can unpack it and check if it is WE if you would like me to.
I think it copper color and rotary.
Let me know,
Jim s.

Nick in Manitou · « **Reply #6 on:** February 24, 2017, 11:20:46 AM »

Thanks for all the input!

The term "apparatus box" didn't occur to me when I was searching. (Metal wall box or mounting box didn't turn up anything of use, and searching this site for 113D came up with the induction coil.)

A house my family lived in in the 1960s had a rotary panel phone and I remember how futuristic it looked to me.

I think that they are cool, but as we tend to move too often, I have been told that the installation of a panel phone in the house we are remodeling is not going to happen. So, thanks for the offer Jim, but I will have to decline.

If anyone needs this box, let me know. I am sure we can work something out!

Thanks again to all for the assistance,
Nick

Jim Stettler · « **Reply #7 on:** February 24, 2017, 03:45:21 PM »

Nick,
I will check to see what brand my panel phone is. If the box will work for me, then I would be interested.
Jim S.

Nick in Manitou · « **Reply #8 on:** March 01, 2017, 05:03:30 PM »

I was emailing with my brothers about the panel phone we had in a home we lived in. The home was built in 1964 and had a panel phone in the kitchen. Although I assume that it had a rotary dial due to the date, my brothers both think they remember it as being a push button phone.

We were in the Maryland suburbs of Washington, DC and all the phones I remember seeing were Western Electric.

I have not located a date for the introduction of a push button panel phone.

Can someone please give me a date for the introduction of the W.E. panel phone with push buttons? I believe the push button version of the W.E. panel phone is the 1750?

Thanks for your help!

Nick

jsowers · « **Reply #9 on:** March 01, 2017, 07:38:54 PM »

Paul Fassbender's site says the 1500 series (of which the 1750 is a member) started in 1963. It was announced the same week of the Kennedy assassination. So 1964 would be quite early for a 10-button panel phone, but not impossible. I don't know if Maryland had Touch-Tone service in 1964. Different areas rolled it out at different times and Maryland and the DC suburbs would be Chesapeake and Potomac Bell, I think. With the proximity to Washington, DC. I'd say they were probably more early than late with new technology.

There's a great documentary about integrating the University of Alabama in June, 1963 and Attorney General Bobby Kennedy uses a Touch-Tone keyset on his desk to talk to his assistant. So it was in service in DC at an early date. This may have been an early 1568HT keyset, judging from Paul's site.

Normally panel phones were built into new home construction and they were part of what was called Telephone Planned Homes, where you got Bell Telephone to pre-wire your home construction for telephones free of charge. The device box for the panel phone had to go in when the wiring went in, before the walls were completed. They promoted prewiring with brochures and I have a round sign that was used to promote an entire neighborhood. It was an interesting concept and no doubt brought in lots of new orders after people moved in. You can tell a Telephone Planned home because there are blank faceplates in every room with telephone wiring behind.

Jim Stettler · « **Reply #10 on:** March 01, 2017, 08:43:04 PM »

http://www.paul-f.com/weproto.html
Here are some photos of proto panel phones.

What are the dimensions of your back box?

Jim S.

Nick in Manitou · « **Reply #11 on:** March 01, 2017, 11:09:25 PM »

Jonathan,
Thanks for the input. C&P is correct...I was trying to remember what name I used to write on the monthly checks and I couldn't come up with it! I went through the family photos trying to find definitive proof that I was correct that the phone was a rotary dial unit, but have not had any luck. It does seem unlikely that our phone would happen to be such an early 10-button phone. (With the advent of digital photography and the cell phone camera, everything will be very well photo-documented from here out - but film and the processing of it was a noticeable expense in those days and it is disappointing to see how few photos of the background of our lives from those days exist.)

Jim,
The inside dimensions of the box I have are approx: 11 3/8" tall, 8 7/16 wide, and about 1 1/2" deep. These are the dimensions of the open area of the box. It has a covered area on one side for wiring to enter and exit and a flange on the outer edge of the opposite side. The overall outside width of the box is approximately 9 13/16" not including the flange.

Nick

amaceto · « **Reply #12 on:** April 17, 2018, 11:03:22 AM »

I have been looking for a mounting box as shown for my 750B.
If you still have yours, and don't need it, and would consider selling it or listing it on an auction site, please let me know.
If any other contributors to this blog may have one, or an extra, I would appreciate hearing from you.
Thank you.

Nick in Manitou · « **Reply #13 on:** April 18, 2018, 01:04:46 AM »

Amaceto,

It would have been a good idea for me to mention in this thread that one of the other forum members had purchased the box from me...but it did not occur to me to do so.

So, unfortunately, I no longer have the box.

Good luck in your search. Perhaps your mentioning it here will get some other forum members to keep their eyes open for you and they will let you know if they come across one.

Nick

amaceto · « **Reply #14 on:** April 18, 2018, 08:56:22 AM »

Nick,
I thank you for the courtesy of following up.
Regards,
Mark

If your visit to the Classic Rotary Phones Forum was enjoyable or helpful, you may tell us by making a small donation. The donation can be made safely via PayPal and will help to off-set the costs of the Forum operation. Thank you!