Author Topic: Year of Introduction of Various AE Models (and components)  (Read 1165 times)

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Year of Introduction of Various AE Models (and components)
« on: February 25, 2017, 10:22:53 PM »
There are various advertisements and AE Sales Catalogs that can be used to nail down dates of introduction of various AE telephone Models and even components used within these models. Post any related information here.

I have this framed wall poster called "Telephones of Yesterday" showing the year of introduction of many Strowger and AE models. I cant even remember where I got this from for certain. I always thought that the AE2 was introduced about 1928 but talking with Unbeldi earlier he mentioned that he has seen an advertisement indicating that the AE2 was available by 1926, the same as the AE1. That got me looking for this poster and it actually shows 1925 for the AE2. However, it also shows 1940 for the AE40 and we pretty much agree that the AE 40 was available by 1939 if not even very late 1938. So, this may not give absolute proof positive of the year of introduction but just a guideline.

Click on the picture to enlarge and I think you will be able to read the text.

Terry

unbeldi

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Re: Year of Introduction of Various AE Models (and components)
« Reply #1 on: February 26, 2017, 08:54:35 AM »
In April 1926 AE published this advertisement in Telephone Engineer, which was a periodical by AE. Very scarcely, individual copies show up on eBay at times. Does anyone have the entire set ?

This ad probably ran for some time after the introduction (1925) of the Automatic Monophone Nos. 1, 2, and the wall phone versions.

I didn't digitize this, it came from somewhere on the Internet.

unbeldi

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Re: Year of Introduction of Various AE Models (and components)
« Reply #2 on: February 26, 2017, 09:20:57 AM »
Here is another timeline of AE products.  I think it came from a collector's website, but I am sure it was not credited to the original source.
It does look like it may have come from another AE publication of the late 1930s.

I believe the TCI library contains a booklet that is entitled "This is Automatic Electric", published in April 1955, when the Automatic Electric Group was about to be acquired as part of the reorganization of General Telephone Corporation.  I have the feeling, that this publication is more of a prospectus that was produced either to sell the transaction to the stock holders of the participants, or to start a new marketing initiative after the merger. This publication already shows the new Type 80 Monophone, but it does not outline the previous history of model introductions.
« Last Edit: February 26, 2017, 09:24:35 AM by unbeldi »

Offline rdelius

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Re: Year of Introduction of Various AE Models (and components)
« Reply #3 on: February 26, 2017, 10:46:34 AM »
That chart was in Automatic telephone practice by Hershey.I think my copy is 1939.NC state library has Telephony,TE&M,AE tech journal etc

unbeldi

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Re: Year of Introduction of Various AE Models (and components)
« Reply #4 on: February 26, 2017, 11:15:48 AM »
That chart was in Automatic telephone practice by Hershey.I think my copy is 1939.NC state library has Telephony,TE&M,AE tech journal etc
Thanks, the only version I have had access to was published in 1919 or so. I don't think that had anything close to a time line, but lot of details about automatic switching equipment.

unbeldi

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Re: Year of Introduction of Various AE Models (and components)
« Reply #5 on: February 26, 2017, 01:22:21 PM »
Here is a chart I reconstructed from a scan of Automatic Telephone Vol 10, No. 9-10 (1922).

It shows the telephone history of the AE/Strowger instruments before the era of the Monophone.

It was a two-page spread, but is resized here to print on a letter sheet.
« Last Edit: February 26, 2017, 01:24:53 PM by unbeldi »

Offline Jack Ryan

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Re: Year of Introduction of Various AE Models (and components)
« Reply #6 on: February 26, 2017, 06:38:49 PM »
I don't think the AE publicity department was very good with dates.

The AE 1, 2, 3 and 4 existed in 1926 and from contemporary statements made by AE staff on the release of the AE 1-A, the release date of the earlier Monophones was 1925. The patents for these phones also support that date.

The "Telephones of Yesterday" poster makes some comments about the release of the step base candlestick with Sunburst dial which I don't think are correct. The candlestick shown with the Sunburst dial mounted at the top of the shaft is a standard catalogue item - there is no internal connection between the switch hook and the dial as there was in the Strowger (large) dials.

[When the Sunburst dial was introduced the step based candlestick didn't yet exist. I believe the CB candlestick was used as a demonstration platform.]

The date listed for the AE 1-A of 1929 related to colour telephones- that is not clear at first glance.

The "Evolution of the Strowger Automatic Telephone" poster gives, I believe, the incorrect dates for the Strowger candlestick and residence set (should be closer to 1905), the residence set with Sunburst dial (should be about 1910) and the candlestick with the Mercedes dial (should be 1911 or 12).

Jack
« Last Edit: February 26, 2017, 06:42:59 PM by Jack Ryan »

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Re: Year of Introduction of Various AE Models (and components)
« Reply #7 on: February 26, 2017, 07:48:51 PM »
Yeah, these posters and advertisements aren't made for us who are trying to pin dates down with some level of accuracy. But then phones weren't like new car models with the new model year all being launched in September of the previous year. There would have been a period of time that the phone was in development, then likely limited supplies of the new models shown around in advertising and industry publications, finally full production and then a bit more time would go by before they actually began to be installed in any quantities. Thus a year or more variation in the dates of introduction is probably normal.

As for the Strowger 11 Digit Stick and Wall Set shown bottom right of the "Evolution of Strowger" poster with 1907 under them, I have normally heard 1905 for these but maybe one came before the other? The "Strowger Progress" chart shows a picture of the Stick with 1905 but the text doesn't really talk about that stick design specifically.  The "Telephones of Yesterday" poster shows 1908 for the Stick but has a picture of the matching Wall Set with a coin collector dated 1905.

I wonder why on the "Telephone Engineer" advertisement they have the AE1 and AE2 clearly labelled yet the AE3 and AE4 Wall sets are just labelled as wall sets without numbers. Like they hadn't decided on their model numbers at the point in time that the advertisement was put together. And where we know the AE1 with no provision to mount a dial as an AE1 and the version with a dial or dial blank as an AE1A, they have called them both "Desk Set #1" but added the word Automatic or Manual to each.

Terry

unbeldi

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Re: Year of Introduction of Various AE Models (and components)
« Reply #8 on: February 26, 2017, 08:00:41 PM »
Naming the dial-version and non-dial version as shown in that 1926 page seems perfectly alright when one forgets all history following.
But we know that the manual version was renamed to No. 5 Monophone by the time of redesign in 1928, when it became the 5-A.  Obviously by that time they had decided to number the 3 and the 4.

But one always has to be careful with advertisements, they are not written by engineers.
Mistakes could not easily be corrected either, like today when all you need to do is press a few keys and run off another color copy on your LP, or mail another PDF file to the printers.
« Last Edit: February 26, 2017, 08:09:17 PM by unbeldi »

unbeldi

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Re: Year of Introduction of Various AE Models (and components)
« Reply #9 on: February 26, 2017, 08:25:03 PM »
To 1907 is generally attributed the conversion of the three-wire Strowger system to the two-wire version, so the labeling of those 11-hole Strowger sets as 1907 is misleading.  I think they were probably used in the South Bend installation (1905) which introduced central battery power.  If you look at the circuits of them, they have no separate battery connection. IIRC, Miller also dates them to 1905 in one of his books.
« Last Edit: February 26, 2017, 08:34:35 PM by unbeldi »

Offline Jack Ryan

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Re: Year of Introduction of Various AE Models (and components)
« Reply #10 on: February 26, 2017, 08:54:14 PM »
Yeah, these posters and advertisements aren't made for us who are trying to pin dates down with some level of accuracy. But then phones weren't like new car models with the new model year all being launched in September of the previous year. There would have been a period of time that the phone was in development, then likely limited supplies of the new models shown around in advertising and industry publications, finally full production and then a bit more time would go by before they actually began to be installed in any quantities. Thus a year or more variation in the dates of introduction is probably normal.

I really don't understand that point of view. I get a similar response when asking about the release dates of WE equipment - "it was not the same for all operating companies" etc.
In my view, a telephone is either released or it is not. There is a formal announcement (not futures) which may or may not coincide with full production. If not, the statement generally indicates when the item will be available. It stands to reason that installation times around the country will vary.

Quote
As for the Strowger 11 Digit Stick and Wall Set shown bottom right of the "Evolution of Strowger" poster with 1907 under them, I have normally heard 1905 for these but maybe one came before the other? The "Strowger Progress" chart shows a picture of the Stick with 1905 but the text doesn't really talk about that stick design specifically.  The "Telephones of Yesterday" poster shows 1908 for the Stick but has a picture of the matching Wall Set with a coin collector dated 1905.

Obergfell says that the desk stand was made in 1904 (steer horn hook) and a modified version ('A' hook) in 1905.

Quote
I wonder why on the "Telephone Engineer" advertisement they have the AE1 and AE2 clearly labelled yet the AE3 and AE4 Wall sets are just labelled as wall sets without numbers. Like they hadn't decided on their model numbers at the point in time that the advertisement was put together. And where we know the AE1 with no provision to mount a dial as an AE1 and the version with a dial or dial blank as an AE1A, they have called them both "Desk Set #1" but added the word Automatic or Manual to each.

Several Monophones did not have an ID when first released. For example, in 1926 the AE 5 was called the AE 1 with centre stem for manual service.

Jack

Offline stub

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Re: Year of Introduction of Various AE Models (and components)
« Reply #11 on: February 26, 2017, 09:25:30 PM »
unbeldi,
            "  April 1926 AE " I posted it to the forum in  Reply #48 on: January 11, 2015, 01:58:50 AM of List of known AE Sales Type Catalogs.  Steve Cichorsky cleaned up the pic and reposted it.  stub
« Last Edit: February 26, 2017, 09:52:10 PM by stub »
Kenneth Stubblefield        
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Re: Year of Introduction of Various AE Models (and components)
« Reply #12 on: February 26, 2017, 09:56:40 PM »
I really don't understand that point of view. I get a similar response when asking about the release dates of WE equipment - "it was not the same for all operating companies" etc.
In my view, a telephone is either released or it is not. There is a formal announcement (not futures) which may or may not coincide with full production. If not, the statement generally indicates when the item will be available. It stands to reason that installation times around the country will vary.

Agreed! There was probably an "official" release date in the books many years ago. But, since we now are left to try to piece it together from advertisements and inclusion in various catalogs it stands to reason that we are going to see discrepancies of a year or more in what could be the release date. Had these actually been cars rather than phones, our job would be so much easier!

Several Monophones did not have an ID when first released. For example, in 1926 the AE 5 was called the AE 1 with centre stem for manual service.

Possibly a move simply to eliminate confusion....or maybe just a necessity to further determine how their model numbering would work. A phone (AE1) that looked significantly different from another phone (AE1A) and didn't have the ability to be converted to dial operation like the AE1A, shouldn't be the same model. Of course the AE21 continued to have both a wall and a desk phone with the same model number.

Terry

unbeldi

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Re: Year of Introduction of Various AE Models (and components)
« Reply #13 on: February 27, 2017, 07:42:34 AM »
Possibly a move simply to eliminate confusion....or maybe just a necessity to further determine how their model numbering would work. A phone (AE1) that looked significantly different from another phone (AE1A) and didn't have the ability to be converted to dial operation like the AE1A, shouldn't be the same model. Of course the AE21 continued to have both a wall and a desk phone with the same model number.

These "model" numbers are really only concept types or classes, they were not used for ordering equipment. Remember that for ordering purpose each instrument type had a set of order numbers associated, the L-xxx-xx numbers, that distinguished the exact modification, but certainly using numbers for the type is a lot shorter than writing out a full name.  By the second half of the 1930s, each modification had not only an L-number, but also a catalog number, which was even shorter, Ax-xx.