Author Topic: Fading POTS lines.  (Read 783 times)

Offline Dan/Panther

  • Global Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 5325
  • Kaw-Liga, I will NEVER forget you. 8/4/98--9/20/10
Fading POTS lines.
« on: March 06, 2017, 12:45:10 PM »
Our Electric Co=Op recently installed Fiber optics phone lines and internet service in our area.
I have good POTS service so I gave the phone line to my Mom who lives on the same property as I do.
Earlier I also gave her one of my 12 button WE 2500 phones to use as it had the volume control handset. I told her that since the new service was fiber optics, She would need a different phone as the 2500 would not ring.
Once the service was installed, We hooked up her new phone, with a wall wart for power. It worked fine but my Mom has a hearing problem, and she could not hear the phone clear enough. I told her i could hook up the other phone, but it won't ring, because no power to the ringer. So for a test to determine if it was the phone or the line itself, I plugged the 2500 in, and dialed it with my cell phone so she could see if the phone was the problem. Well much to my surprise The Older WE 2500 rang loud and clear. How can this be ? There is no power to the fiber optics cable ? Is it possible they added line ringer voltage to the router ?

D/P
« Last Edit: March 06, 2017, 12:48:10 PM by Dan/Panther »

The More People I meet, The More I Love, and MISS My Dog.  Dan Robinson

unbeldi

  • Guest
Re: Fading POTS lines.
« Reply #1 on: March 06, 2017, 01:03:37 PM »
Why would it not ring ?

The fiber is only the transport for the service.  At the OTN where the fiber terminates outside the house is a terminal adapter that presents a standard telco line interface to your residence.
« Last Edit: March 06, 2017, 01:06:57 PM by unbeldi »

Offline AE_Collector

  • Global Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 7448
  • AE 2 - AECo's 1st Self Contained Desk Phone 1925
Re: Fading POTS lines.
« Reply #2 on: March 06, 2017, 01:06:16 PM »
Yes, just like service from a cable company, neither the talk battery nor the ringing voltage arrives via the medium that brings the line to your property. It is introduced in the modem or box that converts to regular pots service for your telephone sets. Sometimes the ring current supplied by these boxes is so low that it won't ring mechanical ringers, only electronic ringers. But I would assume that in most cases it will ring any phone, it just may not be able to ring 4 or 5 of them.

Terry

unbeldi

  • Guest
Re: Fading POTS lines.
« Reply #3 on: March 06, 2017, 01:12:14 PM »
Yes, just like service from a cable company, neither the talk battery nor the ringing voltage arrives via the medium that brings the line to your property. It is introduced in the modem or box that converts to regular pots service for your telephone sets. Sometimes the ring current supplied by these boxes is so low that it won't ring mechanical ringers, only electronic ringers. But I would assume that in most cases it will ring any phone, it just may not be able to ring 4 or 5 of them.

Terry

Ringing should never be the problem.  These boxes are all DOCSIS 3.0 compliant now, which presents a standard interface to the customer. The ringing voltages is likely always at least 75 V or so, but MUST satisfy the 45 V still required by the FCC.  The only difference is actually in the D.C. current that is provided, as the requirements have been dropped to ca. 24 mA, but even T1 transmitters were designed for a minimum of ca. 20 mA.


Offline Jim S.

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3373
Re: Fading POTS lines.
« Reply #4 on: March 06, 2017, 05:48:24 PM »
Yes, just like service from a cable company, neither the talk battery nor the ringing voltage arrives via the medium that brings the line to your property. It is introduced in the modem or box that converts to regular pots service for your telephone sets. Sometimes the ring current supplied by these boxes is so low that it won't ring mechanical ringers, only electronic ringers. But I would assume that in most cases it will ring any phone, it just may not be able to ring 4 or 5 of them.

Terry

I understand how analog "copper" lines work, I had never thought about how talk battery or ring voltage   would need to work on digital lines.
I learned something today that I didn't realize that I didn't know.

It is a good day,
Jim S.
You live, You learn,
You die, you forget it all.

Online HarrySmith

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4959
  • 1937 302
Re: Fading POTS lines.
« Reply #5 on: March 06, 2017, 05:52:03 PM »
I understand how analog "copper" lines work, I had never thought about how talk battery or ring voltage   would need to work on digital lines.
I learned something today that I didn't realize that I didn't know.

It is a good day,
Jim S.


How do you know you didn't know if you don't know??
Harry Smith
ATCA 4434
TCI

"There is no try,
there is only
do or do not"

Offline Jim S.

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3373
Re: Fading POTS lines.
« Reply #6 on: March 06, 2017, 06:15:30 PM »
How do you know you didn't know if you don't know??
You have to think about it.
Jim S.
You live, You learn,
You die, you forget it all.

unbeldi

  • Guest
Re: Fading POTS lines.
« Reply #7 on: March 06, 2017, 06:28:56 PM »
The principle of fiber deployment is not that different from what has been practiced in the telephone network for close to a hundred years almost.  In the 1920s, frequency division multiplexing was introduced on transmission lines, and the L-carrier was introduced in the 1930s. Somewhere in the BLR (I think) is an article called something like "The alphabet soup of carrier systems".
Fiber is just another carrier that has already replaced long-haul copper transmission ~100%, and now it moves the subscriber interfaces a step closer to the user, while leaving the subscriber experience essentially the same.


Offline Jim S.

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3373
Re: Fading POTS lines.
« Reply #8 on: March 06, 2017, 06:44:15 PM »
I am just whining.
I grew up with a common battery dial system. With current tech we are local battery again.
JMO,
 Jim S.
You live, You learn,
You die, you forget it all.

Offline Dan/Panther

  • Global Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 5325
  • Kaw-Liga, I will NEVER forget you. 8/4/98--9/20/10
Re: Fading POTS lines.
« Reply #9 on: March 06, 2017, 08:19:03 PM »
Jim;

It's like being insane. You never know it. I found out something new today also. I did not know that fiber optics lines had power from the router. Makes sense now, The what isd the problem with losing landlines. I can use any of my phones with the latest technology. What has everyone been complaining about if landline go away. I found out today it effects me ZERO.


D/P

The More People I meet, The More I Love, and MISS My Dog.  Dan Robinson

unbeldi

  • Guest
Re: Fading POTS lines.
« Reply #10 on: March 06, 2017, 08:28:16 PM »
Jim;

It's like being insane. You never know it. I found out something new today also. I did not know that fiber optics lines had power from the router. Makes sense now, The what isd the problem with losing landlines. I can use any of my phones with the latest technology. What has everyone been complaining about if landline go away. I found out today it effects me ZERO. What are all the adapters everyone is always recommending for new phone service, to use old phones ?


D/P

It will effect you little, if your provider is Verizon, or Frontier which also uses FiOS equipment in the markets that they bought from Verizon.  These do still support pulse dialing technology, although they may not advertise that.  This is not guaranteed though with companies that use other equipment to terminate their fiber to the premise.  Pulse dialing is not mandated by any standards, such as DOCSIS or by CableLabs, anymore.


Offline AL_as_needed

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 776
  • '41 WE 302
Re: Fading POTS lines.
« Reply #11 on: March 07, 2017, 08:42:42 PM »
Now I'm not well versed on the nitty gritty aspects of fiber optics, but what about the longevity of things like the RJ-11 wall jack?

 I know that most houses have at least two or more hard-wired into the wall, but in the homes I have worked on (built on or after 2007) there aren't any. Mainly co-ax or more common; Cat 6/6e data ports have taken their place. I have also noticed getting Rj-11 hardware is becoming more difficult to get in big box stores.
TWinbrook7

Offline KaiserFrazer67

  • ***
  • Posts: 102
  • Our Telco & Phones
Re: Fading POTS lines.
« Reply #12 on: March 08, 2017, 06:16:05 AM »
It will effect you little, if your provider is Verizon, or Frontier which also uses FiOS equipment in the markets that they bought from Verizon.  These do still support pulse dialing technology, although they may not advertise that...
I can personally testify to that.  I have Frontier POTS and I feel blessed by the fact that the Frontier CO (OKFDWIXA) is literally 6 blocks away here in Oakfield.  Copper from there down to the house.  Not too many people can say that anymore in this day and age!

Just checked my voltage and current with my Milwaukee digital multimeter.  I used a 4-prong adapter in the modular jack so I can just stick my test lead tips in the holes between tip and ring:

53.4 V DC line voltage
82 mA line current (varies a little from 81-84 mA)
77-78 V AC peak ring voltage (calling POTS line with my cellphone)

Can't check AC ring current with the meter though, because that puts the system in an "off-hook" state (busy signal, and if I stick the test leads in while the phone is ringing, it's like picking up the handset and I can hear the static over the cellphone from the leads moving around).

« Last Edit: March 08, 2017, 06:32:20 AM by KaiserFrazer67 »
-Tom from Oakfield, Wisconsin --  My CO CLLI & switch: OKFDWIXADS0--GTD-5 EAX

"Problems are merely opportunities in workclothes." -Henry J. Kaiser