Author Topic: The CRPF "Bad Packing" awards topic - buyer/seller personal opinions and discussion of them  (Read 304 times)

Offline KaiserFrazer67

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Spotted this thread and thought I'd chime in with my 2 worth:

So far, I haven't received any broken phones (which weren't already broken when purchased for parts), but a mere 2-month stretch getting 5 phones through the USPS/FedEx isn't exactly a long time; and I'm sure something is bound to happen eventually due to the laws of probability alone, considering the vast multitude of "devil-may-care-as-long-as-I-get-my-money" junk flippers on eBay.

When messaging sellers, if I think there is a potential problem, I like to tell them what my postmaster told me:  The USPS is under no obligation whatsoever to treat anything as "fragile" unless it is specifically and clearly marked as such.  This is why whenever I ship anything out, in addition to packaging it properly, I take my big ol' hownkin' red Sanford and write "FRAGILE" in big red capital letters on every panel of the box, no matter what I ship.  That way, the carrier can see it no matter how it lays on the belt or truck.  If it's especially fragile, I will add the word "GLASS" to it regardless if it contains any actual glass or not.  If it can't or shouldn't be tipped, I will also add "THIS END UP" on the top and the upper edge of the side panels, with arrows.

About a year or so ago, I had to ship an old, 100-year-old-plus Ansonia wind-up mantel clock to California...  not wanting to take any chances, knowing where it was going, I also added the words "FRAGIL," "VIDRIO," and "ESTE LADO ARRIBA" just in case...  ::)  It arrived just fine.  ;)
-Tom from Oakfield, Wisconsin --  My CO CLLI & switch: OKFDWIXADS0--GTD-5 EAX

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Offline dsk

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I have even got a regular New York number :-) 646 570 1796

Offline andy1702

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I got two GPO 746s last week with absolutely zero packing in the box! Just the phones in an otherwise empty cardboard box. One was damaged and the seller was not helpful when I asked for a refund!

I can't believe how totally brain-dead some people are. What a complete waste of oxygen!
Call me on C*net 0246 81 290 from the UK
or (+44) 246 81 290 from the rest of the world.

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Offline Kenton K

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When sellers are unreasonable like that, I feel no remorse filing an eBay claim. Some sellers don't understand that it's their responsibility until it gets delivered.

Another pet peeve I have is the seller belief that "as is" is a catch all for unconditional no returns. "As is" means as stated in the description. The seller must say "for parts", "not working", and any other defects present. "As is" means the condition as stated. If you don't state the condition, it means nothing! >:(


Offline KaiserFrazer67

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When sellers are unreasonable like that, I feel no remorse filing an eBay claim. Some sellers don't understand that it's their responsibility until it gets delivered.

Another pet peeve I have is the seller belief that "as is" is a catch all for unconditional no returns. "As is" means as stated in the description. The seller must say "for parts", "not working", and any other defects present. "As is" means the condition as stated. If you don't state the condition, it means nothing! >:(
This is where eBay's feedback system comes in.  Sellers make a gigantic stink about wanting five-star reviews and positive feedback; the reason being is that they're penalized, if not outright kicked off eBay, if the ratings are too low.  If something arrives damaged, and the seller is unreasonable, of course file the eBay claim, but don't forget to leave the appropriate feedback.  It's our duty to do anything we can as buyers to weed out the bad sellers.
-Tom from Oakfield, Wisconsin --  My CO CLLI & switch: OKFDWIXADS0--GTD-5 EAX

"Problems are merely opportunities in workclothes." -Henry J. Kaiser

Offline Doug Rose

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You sure do know a lot about selling on eBay.
Kidphone

Offline KaiserFrazer67

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What's to know?  It's common sense; not rocket science.  Do a detailed job of describing your item correctly, including all damage and defects.  If you don't know something about your item, either take the time to research it (you are on the Internet, after all) or say you don't know.  Above all else, TELL THE TRUTH.  Include as many pictures as the limit allows and make sure they're good and crisp; use the micro function on your digital camera for closeups.  Post your terms of sale and stick to them.  Package your item using the utmost of common sense.  If there's even the slightest chance something can break, write "FRAGILE" in big, bold marker letters on every panel of the box.  If it's especially fragile, include the word "GLASS" even if it's not glass.  DON'T BE LAZY.  If you really don't know how to package something, look it up on the Internet, or go to your local post office or UPS Store; they'll show you.  The UPS Store showed me how to correctly use the styrofoam "peanuts" about which so many people complain "they're worthless, they don't protect anything, stuff flies right through them," et cetera ad nauseum.  News flash:  You're not doing it right.   You have to literally overstuff the box a bit so the peanuts can do their job.  Look it up; the right way is not hard to find.   

So do it right, and you'll be positively rewarded.  It really is that simple.  I've been both a seller and buyer on eBay for well over a decade.  I don't have a shop, but I have sold off items my family and I have collected over the years, as well as Telechron clocks, various pieces of Depression/Elegant glass, a 100-year-old-plus mantel clock, and any other number of collectibles, not to mention many of the Tonka/Nylint and other toys I had when I was a kid (you'd be surprised what they'll bring!); and I've got over 1,000 all-positive feedback from just the little bit I do from time to time. 

If the detailed seller ratings weren't so important, why do I so often get that little comic (which I've included below) sent along with an item I purchase from time to time?  I get handwritten requests for me to leave 5-star ratings sent with my purchases all the time.  It's practically like this:  "PLEEEEASE, PLEEEEASE GIVE ME FIVE STARS PLEEEEEEEASE I'MONMYHANDSANDKNEESHEREPLEEEEEASE!!! :'( :'( :'( :'( "  Yeah, it wears on me.  Listen:  If you treat me right as the buyer, you'll get your 5 stars.  If you don't, you'll get what I think you deserve, period.  I'm not one of those people who believes in trophies for 14th place.  You get from me what I think you deserve.  If you don't like it, then do a better job next time!!  There are FAR too many fly-by-night, P. T. Barnum junk flippers out there who just don't care as long as they get their money.  This thread is a VERY solemn 29 page-long testament to that fact.  They need to go; and if feedback is the way to do it, so be it.
« Last Edit: April 08, 2017, 04:33:59 AM by KaiserFrazer67 »
-Tom from Oakfield, Wisconsin --  My CO CLLI & switch: OKFDWIXADS0--GTD-5 EAX

"Problems are merely opportunities in workclothes." -Henry J. Kaiser

Offline Kenton K

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Well said. Ebay makes those 5 star necessary for any big seller. I always found it weird that 4 stars isn't good enough.


Offline Doug Rose

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KaiserFrazer67....How many items have you sold on eBay?  No long, drawn out answer. Just a number.

My guess is zero.

Good judge of the process.

I am a collector, a buyer and seller.

Sellers cannot give negative feedback when the good buyer just walks away from a binding transaction. Level playing field? Whaddaya think? eBay slaps their wrist. So much for begging for the 5 stars.

Without sellers, there are no buyers. Go figure.

Yes...there are bad sellers.....Yes.... there are bad buyers..... jflowres....phones every week. Not hiding like some who love to criticize.


Careful, that high horse is hard to ride and a long fall off....Kidphone  (can't be too careful on the Internet)

Kidphone

Offline KaiserFrazer67

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KaiserFrazer67....How many items have you sold on eBay?  No long, drawn out answer. Just a number.

My guess is zero.
You guessed very wrong.  I'm not a big seller; probably a couple hundred items over the last 15 years (I do buy more than I sell).  I've got three dials up on eBay right now:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/401303448852
http://www.ebay.com/itm/401303456327
http://www.ebay.com/itm/401303463513

Nobody's hiding anything, Doug.  I just didn't post them on the forum because I felt it would be redundant.  People on the forum know what they're looking for and they know what these items are better than I do.  In fact, I learned what these dials are from these very people.

Besides, I already mentioned what I've sold on eBay in my above posts, if you'd cared to read them.  If I was one to "hide" anything, why would I have posted all the information I did in my signature?

Also I feel bad, knowing how many Canadian members we have, about not shipping to Canada because I've lost money on it before.  I am looking for a more reasonable way to do it than the USPS (which is NOT reasonable) so that I can.  That's a LOT of cost to pass on to the buyer, which I'd rather not do; and I'm not a daily seller who can afford to absorb that cost.  I sell occasionally, like having a rummage sale, when I need a little extra "mad money" or just want to do some housecleaning.

My terms of sale are what they are because I've gotten burned BAD before, myself.  One of my Telechron clocks wound up in Japan.  The person sent it back to the straw buyer through whom they bought it, demanding a refund.  It arrived back to me damaged and in completely different packaging than that in which I had sent it.  I had gone out of my way to mark it "Fragile" and package it correctly.  God only knows how the straw buyers re-packaged it and sent it to Japan...  I reluctantly gave the refund, and then blocked the outfit who bought it.  I had to block over two dozen eBay usernames from just that one outfit.  Luckily I had found several web forums alerting people of outfits which did this sort of thing, and they posted the eBay username lists, which were changing all the time.  This particular outfit was based in California and made money transferring items to buyers from other countries, mostly Japan and the Far East.  Not exactly honest, in my opinion.  That was around four years ago; I changed my Terms of Sale accordingly--haven't had a problem since.

So IMHO, there is absolutely nothing wrong with expecting the best from a seller, being a seller myself!  All I'm asking is that a seller use honesty, common sense and actual, genuine EFFORT and DISCIPLINE.  Since when is that too much to ask?  A seller will get 5 stars all the way around if I feel he or she has earned it.  I gave Marie 5 stars for the AE 40 I bought from her, because I thought she earned it.  But if you don't earn it, I won't give it.  Again--I'm not a person who believes in "trophies for everyone."

There are indeed repercussions for walkaway buyers; it's called an unpaid item strike. I don't know the details, but a quick eBay search does tell me that "...if a buyer has a history of unpaid items, it can lead to limits or loss of buying privileges."  So if you get enough of them, eBay can shut down your account; that's the way I read it.

The main point is that I have indeed sold and continue to sell on eBay.  All you and I can do as sellers is make sure we do the best we can.  My problem is with the sellers who WON'T.  You can't tell me with all the stuff you've bought on eBay that you haven't run across your share of idiots and ne'er-do-wells.  Those are the people myself and others in this thread are referencing.  All we have in our defense as buyers is the rating system and the eBay Money Back Guarantee (when they decide to honor it); and as sellers, all we have in our defense is the unpaid item strikes.  No, it's not a level playing field; I realize that, believe me.  But if you want to play, you adjust your play accordingly, and that means "CYA" at every turn:  Be precise, be detailed, lots of pictures inside and out, leave no important detail unmentioned, package with common sense, put your terms of sale where everyone can see them and stick to them if something does go wrong; and if you have questions regarding any of the above, get the answers before you post the sale.  It really is the best we can do.  I didn't come up with this advice out of the blue; it's from actual experience (whether you want to believe it or not) as well as what I picked up from other sellers on several collector forums (including our own) who have openly shared that advice.  It's very good, simple, common-sense advice.  And pardon me if I ruffle feathers when I say that whoever isn't willing to heed that advice probably shouldn't be selling on eBay.
« Last Edit: April 08, 2017, 02:36:21 PM by KaiserFrazer67 »
-Tom from Oakfield, Wisconsin --  My CO CLLI & switch: OKFDWIXADS0--GTD-5 EAX

"Problems are merely opportunities in workclothes." -Henry J. Kaiser

Offline TelePlay

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Some very interesting points and insights into eBay buyer and sellers above, learned a few new things about eBay, and more can be said but just a reminder to keep it friendly when presenting differing opinions.
            John . . .

              

Offline Doug Rose

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Not trying to pick a fight at all. Your posts are extremely long, so excuse me for not reading everything. You have your opinion and I have mine. I really don't think one size fits all with sellers...or buyers for that matter.

I do think most sellers are good people trying to make some extra money or it is their only source of income. There are bad apples on both sides, but they are the minority. Being a seller and a buyer, I thought you would recognize this.

It's a hobby, it's supposed to be fun....Doug
Kidphone

Offline KaiserFrazer67

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Not trying to pick a fight at all. Your posts are extremely long, so excuse me for not reading everything. You have your opinion and I have mine. I really don't think one size fits all with sellers...or buyers for that matter.

I do think most sellers are good people trying to make some extra money or it is their only source of income. There are bad apples on both sides, but they are the minority. Being a seller and a buyer, I thought you would recognize this.

It's a hobby, it's supposed to be fun....Doug
I do recognize it, and thank you.  And on those notes I can certainly agree.  Glad we could find the common ground.  :)

Also one other positive thing I'd like to say, and I think I've said this elsewhere on the forum:  If a forum member is a seller, I feel I can bid with confidence.  No ordinary junk flipper is going to take the time to participate in a forum for this hobby, so if a seller is also a forum member, it shows they actually care about what they're selling.  It also shows you're willing to be accountable to others in this hobby by doing so.
« Last Edit: April 08, 2017, 10:14:35 AM by KaiserFrazer67 »
-Tom from Oakfield, Wisconsin --  My CO CLLI & switch: OKFDWIXADS0--GTD-5 EAX

"Problems are merely opportunities in workclothes." -Henry J. Kaiser

Offline Doug Rose

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thanks Tom....Doug
Kidphone