Author Topic: GTE/AE Phone jacks with 5 wires  (Read 1146 times)

Offline markosjal

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GTE/AE Phone jacks with 5 wires
« on: May 29, 2017, 05:26:25 PM »
I remember as a child going into GTE/AE country and seeing 5 Wire phone jacks
Red
Green
Yellow
Black
White

Later I took a job in GTE/AE country at an old building where there were old, unused phone lines installed everywhere and from time to time even re-purposed one.

I was always very curious, especially since discovering that the Starlite had its own cord , why were 5 conductor jacks used in Many AE / GTE jacks?
Phat Phantom's phreaking phone phettish

Offline rdelius

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Re: GTE/AE Phone jacks with 5 wires
« Reply #1 on: May 30, 2017, 08:32:53 AM »
Only the early Starlites had the ac plug.Later sets had the 5 cond line cord.One resistor current drop assy could feed more than one set so jacks could share wiring

Alex G. Bell

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Re: GTE/AE Phone jacks with 5 wires
« Reply #2 on: May 30, 2017, 04:31:56 PM »
I remember as a child going into GTE/AE country and seeing 5 Wire phone jacks
Red
Green
Yellow
Black
White

Later I took a job in GTE/AE country at an old building where there were old, unused phone lines installed everywhere and from time to time even re-purposed one.

I was always very curious, especially since discovering that the Starlite had its own cord , why were 5 conductor jacks used in Many AE / GTE jacks?
I've been following this kind of stuff since the 1960s including receiving original AE catalog station, key, PBX and CO sections directly from AE sales offices during those times.  I don't recall ever noticing a 5-contact jack in any of these catalogs.  Did it have round or flat pins?  In what sort of layout?

I can see the need for 5-contact jacks for later Starlite phones for grounded ringing + 2 conds. for the dial light power.  Can't see any need for ordinary phones.

Offline markosjal

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Re: GTE/AE Phone jacks with 5 wires
« Reply #3 on: May 31, 2017, 03:01:24 AM »
What it looked like ? Well this is from memory. Imagine. We42 terminal block except the cover is integrated, made of thin plastic ,  and folded over . No screw hole in middle for cover

Now if you were to add a 5th wire not on center but  towards the yellow and black that is where the 5th wire was .  As I recall yellow and white may have been reversed from my description here.

Google was no help in finding one. They can not seem to distinguish between automatic electric and western electric.
Phat Phantom's phreaking phone phettish

Offline dsk

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Re: GTE/AE Phone jacks with 5 wires
« Reply #4 on: May 31, 2017, 03:19:35 AM »
Did you have a 5 pin plug and jack? or only 5 wires from a 4 pin jack?

Here (in Norway) we used 3 pin plugs for CB (ring, tip  ( and ground)) and 6 pins for LB systems (2wires for line, 2 for battery, 2 for external ringer). 
dsk

Alex G. Bell

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Re: GTE/AE Phone jacks with 5 wires
« Reply #5 on: May 31, 2017, 03:43:27 AM »
What it looked like ? Well this is from memory. Imagine. We42 terminal block except the cover is integrated, made of thin plastic ,  and folded over . No screw hole in middle for cover

Now if you were to add a 5th wire not on center but  towards the yellow and black that is where the 5th wire was .  As I recall yellow and white may have been reversed from my description here.

Google was no help in finding one. They can not seem to distinguish between automatic electric and western electric.
It sounds like you're talking about the standard AE connecting block which  has a cover which is raised in the center to be pressed in to pop it open. 

That's a connecting block with screw terminals for terminating inside wire leads and telephone set cord spade tips.  It's not a jack.  A jack has female contacts to receive the male contacts of a plug.  The plug is inserted to connect the telephone, without use of a screwdriver, and pulled out to disconnect the telephone set cord, like an AC power plug and receptacle on an electrical appliance.

Here is the photo from AE Catalog Section M page M-28, available here:
http://www.telephonecollectors.info/index.php/document-repository/doc_details/5359-ae-catalog-ta75-section-m-station-equipment-1975-ocr

Is this what you were referring to?

Offline kb3pxr

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Re: GTE/AE Phone jacks with 5 wires
« Reply #6 on: May 31, 2017, 12:50:25 PM »
I was always very curious, especially since discovering that the Starlite had its own cord , why were 5 conductor jacks used in Many AE / GTE jacks?

Actually only the early Starlites had the integrated cord, later models along with the Stylelines (AE's Trimline) used the telephone additional wires to carry the 120 volts AC. The wires were connected to the AC line through a special plug that contained resistors to limit the current in the event of a short. Since ground had to be present on some service types, five wires were required to carry the telephone line (tip and ring), ground, and the dial light power.

Offline dsk

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Re: GTE/AE Phone jacks with 5 wires
« Reply #7 on: May 31, 2017, 01:06:04 PM »
Thank you!
That clarify it, a connecting block, not plug and jack!
The links in this thread are also good: http://tinyurl.com/ybu3djd6

dsk

Alex G. Bell

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Re: GTE/AE Phone jacks with 5 wires
« Reply #8 on: May 31, 2017, 01:39:07 PM »
Actually only the early Starlites had the integrated cord, later models along with the Stylelines (AE's Trimline) used the telephone additional wires to carry the 120 volts AC. The wires were connected to the AC line through a special plug that contained resistors to limit the current in the event of a short. Since ground had to be present on some service types, five wires were required to carry the telephone line (tip and ring), ground, and the dial light power.
In contrast to Princess and Trimline phones where the 6-8VAC for the lamp was from the isolated output of a transformer.  Consequently, although the lamp power leads were normally floating (not grounded), one side could be grounded if necessary to get by with a 4-contact plug and jack (or connecting block) if the phone was used for a grounded ringing party line. 

The use of grounded AC power for the Starlite dial lighting OTOH made this impractical, because proper wiring of the NEUTRAL and LINE wires of an AC receptacle is considered unreliable or outside the control of the telephone company (if an electrician subsequently worked on the premises). 

As a purely technical matter the Starlite dial light could have been powered from the AC line through one half of the 47K resistor plug "wall wart" (the side associated with the LINE conductor of the outlet) with the light circuit returning to the same ground as the ringer, thereby not requiring the use of 5 terminals for the cord even on grounded ringing party lines.

Offline markosjal

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Re: GTE/AE Phone jacks with 5 wires
« Reply #9 on: June 15, 2017, 02:59:17 AM »
It sounds like you're talking about the standard AE connecting block which  has a cover which is raised in the center to be pressed in to pop it open. 

That's a connecting block with screw terminals for terminating inside wire leads and telephone set cord spade tips.  It's not a jack.  A jack has female contacts to receive the male contacts of a plug.  The plug is inserted to connect the telephone, without use of a screwdriver, and pulled out to disconnect the telephone set cord, like an AC power plug and receptacle on an electrical appliance.

Here is the photo from AE Catalog Section M page M-28, available here:
http://www.telephonecollectors.info/index.php/document-repository/doc_details/5359-ae-catalog-ta75-section-m-station-equipment-1975-ocr

Is this what you were referring to?

Yes that is it EXACTLY 5 "points" I suppose is contacts.
Phat Phantom's phreaking phone phettish

Offline markosjal

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Re: GTE/AE Phone jacks with 5 wires
« Reply #10 on: June 15, 2017, 03:06:11 AM »
When I worked at the place that had these 5 contact connecting blocks they had wall mounted starlites everywhere so I suppose that was the reason the 5 conductors were required.

Funny I found some pics recently of the building being prepped for tear down and there were wall mount starlites in the pics. I wonder how many got smashed. They must have had hundreds of them everywhere.

edit----------------------
I found the video 8:05 and more at 8:40 into this video . So sad to think how many starlights got smashed
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UDHD10igFz8
« Last Edit: June 15, 2017, 03:20:41 AM by markosjal »
Phat Phantom's phreaking phone phettish

Alex G. Bell

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Re: GTE/AE Phone CONNECTING BLOCKS with 5 TERMINALS
« Reply #11 on: June 15, 2017, 06:18:54 AM »
When I worked at the place that had these 5 contact connecting blocks they had wall mounted starlites everywhere so I suppose that was the reason the 5 conductors were required.

Funny I found some pics recently of the building being prepped for tear down and there were wall mount starlites in the pics. I wonder how many got smashed. They must have had hundreds of them everywhere.

edit----------------------
I found the video 8:05 and more at 8:40 into this video . So sad to think how many starlights got smashed
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UDHD10igFz8
192s IIRC.  They may have looked like wall mounted Starlites just like 1554s and 2554s looked like wall mounted Princesses but neither of them actually were that because neither of them had lighted dials.
« Last Edit: June 15, 2017, 06:25:36 AM by Alex G. Bell »