Author Topic: Manual Candlestick Number Card Holder  (Read 501 times)

Manual Candlestick Number Card Holder
« on: June 04, 2017, 06:22:22 PM »
I recently picked up a 20AL with this number card holder attachment.  It looks factory to me.  I have never had one in 40 years of collecting.  I know the over the mouthpiece card holders are somewhat common, but was curious about the  history of this holder.

Any comments would be helpful.

Steve

Offline rdelius

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Re: Manual Candlestick Number Card Holder
« Reply #1 on: June 04, 2017, 07:08:35 PM »
Used on 20 series sticks to hold a number card the 50 series sticks had a dial or blank so not nessessary

Offline poplar1

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Re: Manual Candlestick Number Card Holder
« Reply #2 on: June 04, 2017, 07:09:24 PM »
It was used with 635A ("bulldog") transmitters since there was no way to reuse the older type (128-A?) number card holders.
"C'est pas une restauration, c'est une rénovation."--François Martin.

Alex G. Bell

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Re: Manual Candlestick Number Card Holder
« Reply #3 on: June 04, 2017, 07:09:33 PM »
I recently picked up a 20AL with this number card holder attachment.  It looks factory to me.  I have never had one in 40 years of collecting.  I know the over the mouthpiece card holders are somewhat common, but was curious about the  history of this holder.

Any comments would be helpful.

Steve
I never saw one before Gary Goff had repros made, at which time I bought one!  There might be a BSP showing it, kind of think so but not sure. 

Presumably the motivation was to be able to use the same full size number cards and holders used on dials and not have to fiddle with the transmitter edge screws to install the # card. 

In addition to the over the MP holder for solid back transmitters there was also one that attached to the top of a 635 "bulldog" trans. and hooked onto the front lip.

Alex G. Bell

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Re: Manual Candlestick Number Card Holder
« Reply #4 on: June 04, 2017, 07:11:15 PM »
It was used with 635A ("bulldog") transmitters since there was no way to reuse the older type (128-A?) number card holders.
There actually was a different version of the original solid back transmitter card holder for bulldogs.  Don't think I own one but have seen them.

Offline poplar1

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Re: Manual Candlestick Number Card Holder
« Reply #5 on: June 04, 2017, 07:35:33 PM »

Presumably the motivation was to be able to use the same full size number cards and holders used on dials and not have to fiddle with the transmitter edge screws to install the # card. 


The existing full size number cards -- at least until ca. 1957 with the all gray cards -- could already be used on the 128-type card holders. That's why they have perforated lines, so they can be torn to fit.

http://www.classicrotaryphones.com/forum/index.php?topic=15510.msg161172#msg161172

Here is a number card with the perforated lines to be torn when the card is used with a 128-type holder:
http://www.classicrotaryphones.com/forum/index.php?topic=16235.msg168292#msg168292
« Last Edit: June 04, 2017, 07:40:10 PM by poplar1 »
"C'est pas une restauration, c'est une rénovation."--François Martin.

Alex G. Bell

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Re: Manual Candlestick Number Card Holder
« Reply #6 on: June 04, 2017, 07:41:51 PM »
The existing full size number cards -- at least until ca. 1957 with the all gray cards -- could already be used on the 128-type card holders. That's why they have perforated lines, so they can be torn to fit.

http://www.classicrotaryphones.com/forum/index.php?topic=15510.msg161172#msg161172
I understand the purpose of the perforations. 

I don't recall seeing gray cards with perforations.  For that matter I don't recall seeing PLEASE WAIT ... FOR DIAL TONE cards with perforations, only ones with plain black borders, although that language would not apply on a manual phone.  So perhaps the motive was to be able to use cards without perforations.

Re: Manual Candlestick Number Card Holder
« Reply #7 on: June 04, 2017, 07:49:01 PM »
Thanks for the input....  Sounds as if these are newer than the 128 card holders that go over the mouthpiece....  Perhaps just the part of the country I have lived in did not use these, idk. 

So are these as plentiful as the 128 holders?  I noticed they have the notch for the transmitter bolt on both sides.  The desk stand that had this mounting had a brass 323 Transmitter.

Wonder if they were ever used on a 130A Donut phone?

Offline poplar1

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Re: Manual Candlestick Number Card Holder
« Reply #8 on: June 04, 2017, 07:49:40 PM »
How many solid back transmitters were still being used in 1957, if indeed they were the only transmitters that required the type number card holder shown in the initial post here?

I have only one of these newer style holders, but I don't recall if it was on a 120-AL, 633A, or what exactly. The phone did have a bulldog transmitter, however.
"C'est pas une restauration, c'est une rénovation."--François Martin.

Alex G. Bell

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Re: Manual Candlestick Number Card Holder
« Reply #9 on: June 04, 2017, 08:41:51 PM »
How many solid back transmitters were still being used in 1957, if indeed they were the only transmitters that required the type number card holder shown in the initial post here?

I have only one of these newer style holders, but I don't recall if it was on a 120-AL, 633A, or what exactly. The phone did have a bulldog transmitter, however.
But a number card holder which mounted over the top of a 635 transmitter, using the top 2 rim screws and hooking over the front edge, also existed.  So what possible reason could there be for producing another one that attached to the pivot bolt except to be able to use the full round card?

C10.002 Iss. 3, 3-2-36 lists "C37.300 - Number Cards and Holders". (.300 is a category, not a specific BSP)

I have C37.311 Iss. 6, 4-15-40: "Station Number Cards and Number Card Holders".  It shows only the 128-type in an illustration (but not IDed by code) and round card holder assy for a dial or app. blank. 

Also, AT&T Spec. 4588, May 1928 p13 lists "Number Plate, #128B and #128D" referring to the card holders for solid back transmitters.

Catalogs as late as #10 list the 128B number plate.  It disappears at #11.

Perhaps you have more.  I don't have time to research further at this moment.

Alex G. Bell

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Re: Manual Candlestick Number Card Holder
« Reply #10 on: August 03, 2017, 07:08:34 PM »
Pursuant to the discussion about the drop down transmitter perch bolt-mounted number card ring holder and all the skepticism about why they bothered to create such a part, here's more fuel for the debate: a WE manual desk stand base shop modified for a standard number card ring.  Of course anyone could  have purchased vermilion ink so the marking does not prove it was done by a WE distribution house...

Note that the area under the number card ring was pressed flat so the edge of the ring would be against a flat surface, something most people would not be able to do at home.

Offline Doug Rose

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Re: Manual Candlestick Number Card Holder
« Reply #11 on: August 03, 2017, 07:51:29 PM »
That is very cool.  I have seen them in the past and walk away thinking it was a home brew. Hard to argue with the date stamp....Doug
« Last Edit: August 03, 2017, 08:23:25 PM by Doug Rose »
Kidphone

Alex G. Bell

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Re: Manual Candlestick Number Card Holder
« Reply #12 on: August 03, 2017, 08:14:46 PM »
That is very cool.  I have seen them in the past and walk away thing it was a home brew. Hard to argue with the date stamp....Doug
Thanks.  I wish I had a parts phone to put it on.  I prefer not to swap out the base of a 20-type desk stand that came to me "whole".  Maybe the rest of the parts to build a complete phone around it will turn up.  Otherwise I suppose I could turn it into a lamp...  :D