Author Topic: Need help wiring a KS-21276 connector in pay phone  (Read 2856 times)

Offline hydephone

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Need help wiring a KS-21276 connector in pay phone
« on: June 07, 2017, 01:02:57 PM »
I am trying to repair a payphone that has been reworked for residential service.

The front part of the phone is connected electrically to the wall mounted part with a KS-21276 11 pin round connector.

There are a number of wires to the connector hanging free.  I believe the soldering and the wires have just given up the ghost over time and that if I could reconnect things it would work again.  It worked last year.

Here is a table of wire colors that shows what I have.  Pin # is the pin number, plug side is connected wires, hanging loose are the wires  I think I need to connect, and socket side is what is what is connected to the backside of the socket.  The piece the socket is in appears to be numbered 557F WE if that is important.  I am looking for some direction on what to connect to what:


Pin #           Plug side       Hanging loose      Socket side     
1Brown          Brown w/yellow
2          White w/bluePurple
3OrangeOrange
4Yellow  Red w/green
5Green          Green
6Light blue          Blue w/red
7PurpleNote below   
8Gray          Note below
9White          Yellow w/green
10Red         Red
11Black          Black

Note below:  On the socket side, the 4 pin is also connected to the 7 and 8 pins with black wires.


I am about halfway ready to hook up the 3 pin to the loose orange, 10 to the loose red, and 11 to the loose black, but have no idea where to put the loose yellow or the loose white w/blue.

Help?  Ideas?  Resources?  Guidance?

Thanks in advance.

Alex G. Bell

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Re: Need help wiring a KS-21276 connector in pay phone
« Reply #1 on: June 07, 2017, 01:33:46 PM »
Look in the TCI library for the Bell System Practice (BSP) for the appropriate coin telephone set, (1A or 1C, you did not state which you have).  http://telephonecollectors.info/

The BSP shows all interconnections between the coin chassis, upper housing and Totalizer, which use 11-pin "octal" style plugs and sockets in the 1A and 1C sets.

Stamped on the metal chassis running the length of the upper housing along the right side is a number like "32A" which designates the coin chassis code.  IIRC, 557F is the part # on an integrated circuit, just a component.  There is also a number on the totalizer.  These things together identify it as a "prepay" 1A type or convertible "prepay (coin first) / dial tone first" 1C coin telephone set.  The 1C CF/DTF Totalizer also has a slide switch on it.
« Last Edit: June 07, 2017, 01:41:11 PM by Alex G. Bell »

Offline hydephone

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Re: Need help wiring a KS-21276 connector in pay phone
« Reply #2 on: June 08, 2017, 12:44:44 PM »
Thanks for the response!!

I didn't identify what set I have because I don't know and don't know how to tell.

I poked around over at the suggested site.
http://telephonecollectors.info/index.php/browse/bsps/most-popular/coin-sets-cb was one place I looked.

I see things like BSP section 506-410-401 August 1980 1D/2D Type Coin Telephone Sets (or 506-410-400) and I can clearly see the parts in which I am interested.  Figs 1 and 4 in that document show my round connector and look just like my board.

I am not, however, finding anything on how to wire that connector or connectors in general.  Lots of mounting and installation instructions.  Perhaps my BSP search skills are too low.
 
I am still looking around over there, but would appreciate guidance from anyone who is more familiar with accessing those documents.

Alex G. Bell

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Re: Need help wiring a KS-21276 connector in pay phone
« Reply #3 on: June 08, 2017, 01:06:13 PM »
Thanks for the response!!

I didn't identify what set I have because I don't know and don't know how to tell.

I poked around over at the suggested site.
http://telephonecollectors.info/index.php/browse/bsps/most-popular/coin-sets-cb was one place I looked.

I see things like BSP section 506-410-401 August 1980 1D/2D Type Coin Telephone Sets (or 506-410-400) and I can clearly see the parts in which I am interested.  Figs 1 and 4 in that document show my round connector and look just like my board.

I am not, however, finding anything on how to wire that connector or connectors in general.  Lots of mounting and installation instructions.  Perhaps my BSP search skills are too low.
 
I am still looking around over there, but would appreciate guidance from anyone who is more familiar with accessing those documents.
I could be mistaken because I have not looked at one in a long time, but I thought the 1D used a D-sub connector instead of 11-pin round "octal" style internally.  That's why I suggested 1A or 1C.  Perhaps the 1D uses a D-sub and a round connector too, been a long time.  2A/2C/2D are flush mount versions.  1A/1C/1D are surface mount "box" versions. 

I suggested in my earlier reply that 557F might have been the part number of an integrated circuit, which only appears on the 1D coin chassis.  That would positively ID yours as a 1D type.  You have not replied to my comment about this.  Is that part # marked on a white ceramic IC with 40 gold pins mounted on the vertical coin chassis running most of the height along the right side?

The 1D uses an electronic Totalizer instead of an electro-mechanical one used in 1A & 1C.  The electro-mechanical Totalizer is a unit of about 4"x4"x5" with a clear plastic cover with a cable plugging into the coin chassis with an 11-contact round plug.

At this point it probably would be most efficient for you to post a photo of the insides of the back assembly with the upper housing removed. 

I have other BSPs containing complete wiring details which may not be available in the library.  Once we determine what you have we will be able to get you the info you need. 

Are the detached wires on the cable from the upper housing to the coin chassis, or between internal parts such as the Totalizer and coin chassis?

Offline hydephone

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Re: Need help wiring a KS-21276 connector in pay phone
« Reply #4 on: June 08, 2017, 01:36:18 PM »
Thanks for replying.

Quote
That would positively ID yours as a 1D type.

Well, that is a good start!

Quote
Is that part # marked on a white ceramic IC with 40 gold pins mounted on the vertical coin chassis running most of the height along the right side?
I will take a picture of the back of the board where I saw that number tonight and post it. I don't remember the IC.

Quote
The 1D uses an electronic Totalizer instead of an electro-mechanical one used in 1A & 1C.  The electro-mechanical Totalizer is a unit of about 4"x4"x5" with a clear plastic cover with a cable plugging into the coin chassis with an 11-contact round plug.
I don't think I have one of those. The phone has been converted to work on just regular residential service.  When it worked, you picked up the handset, got a dial tone, and called. When it started to not work, I have reports that they could hear you but you couldn't hear them.  When I plug a basic landline into the interior socket, I get a dial tone.  This leads me to believe that one of the wires (specifically to the ear speaker in the handset) has just worked its way loose over time.  Again, I will take some pics and post them.

Quote
Are the detached wires on the cable from the upper housing to the coin chassis, or between internal parts such as the Totalizer and coin chassis?
     
The detached wires are the ones to the KS-21276 plug.  The plug is held in the end of a snap apart plastic handle (for lack of a better word) that also acts to hold the gray 11 piece wire.   Much like item 10 in Fig 1 of 506-410-401.  The loose wires are entirely within the handle on the backside of the plug.  I will photograph this as well.

Hang on for incoming photo evidence!

Alex G. Bell

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Re: Need help wiring a KS-21276 connector in pay phone
« Reply #5 on: June 08, 2017, 02:12:40 PM »
Thanks for replying.

Well, that is a good start!
I will take a picture of the back of the board where I saw that number tonight and post it. I don't remember the IC.
I don't think I have one of those. The phone has been converted to work on just regular residential service.  When it worked, you picked up the handset, got a dial tone, and called. When it started to not work, I have reports that they could hear you but you couldn't hear them.  When I plug a basic landline into the interior socket, I get a dial tone.  This leads me to believe that one of the wires (specifically to the ear speaker in the handset) has just worked its way loose over time.  Again, I will take some pics and post them.
     
The detached wires are the ones to the KS-21276 plug.  The plug is held in the end of a snap apart plastic handle (for lack of a better word) that also acts to hold the gray 11 piece wire.   Much like item 10 in Fig 1 of 506-410-401.  The loose wires are entirely within the handle on the backside of the plug.  I will photograph this as well.

Hang on for incoming photo evidence!
You're welcome.  In the first place, these phones are quite complex.  In the second place, the Totalizer, whether electronic in a 1D or electromechanical, plays a vital role, intercepting the speech circuit so that coin deposit signals can be sent to the line without being reproduced loudly in the receiver.  So depending on what kind of phone it was and what was done to it to make it work without coins, there are too many unknowns to diagnose until we make an absolutely positive ID.  OTOH, with leads having come loose, that's yet another major unknown that no document will show.

Another common failure which causes "no receive" in any kind of Touch Tone phone (coin or non-coin) is worn or contaminated dial contacts.  However we don't know yet whether you have a rotary or TT phone nor where the cable with the disconnected leads goes: to the dial assy in the upper housing?  To the Totalizer?

Ordinarily a 1C configured for Dial Tone First mode will work on an ordinary (non-coin) line without modification just for making and receiving calls with no coin functions.  A prepay/coin first 1A or 1C set to that mode would be unable to dial until there was a deposit. 

I would expect a 1D to work without modification too since it's inherently DTF also.  The dial must be able to function before coins are deposited so emergency 911 calls can be placed without a coin.  That was the major point of the costly conversion from CF to DTF.  Secondarily was elimination of people losing money by depositing it in non-working phones.

It's possible there's something I'm overlooking, however I can say I've had DTF 1Cs on my workbench connected  to ordinary lines and was able to make calls.  So I'd expect the same from a 1D even though I have not done it.

With all this said, it's sometimes the case that people modify payphones in ways that are unnecessary out of lack of understanding.  We'll sort it all out once we collect the appropriate facts.  There may be "alternative facts" in other domains but not in this one!

I expect to be off-line from later today for about 12-24 hours.

Offline mentalstampede

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Re: Need help wiring a KS-21276 connector in pay phone
« Reply #6 on: June 08, 2017, 04:42:29 PM »

Ordinarily a 1C configured for Dial Tone First mode will work on an ordinary (non-coin) line without modification just for making and receiving calls with no coin functions.  A prepay/coin first 1A or 1C set to that mode would be unable to dial until there was a deposit. 

I would expect a 1D to work without modification too since it's inherently DTF also.  The dial must be able to function before coins are deposited so emergency 911 calls can be placed without a coin.  That was the major point of the costly conversion from CF to DTF.  Secondarily was elimination of people losing money by depositing it in non-working phones.

It's possible there's something I'm overlooking, however I can say I've had DTF 1Cs on my workbench connected  to ordinary lines and was able to make calls.  So I'd expect the same from a 1D even though I have not done it.

I have a complete unmodified 1D2. It is capable of making and receiving calls without depositing coins as you describe. It has a D-sub connector for the electronic totalizer, but the upper housing still uses the old style round connector to connect the switchook, handset, and touch calling unit to the chassis. I believe the upper housing connections to the round plug are the connections hydephone is referring to.
My name is Kenn, and I like telephones.

“Progress isn't made by early risers. It's made by lazy men trying to find easier ways to do something.” --Robert Heinlein

Alex G. Bell

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Re: Need help wiring a KS-21276 connector in pay phone
« Reply #7 on: June 08, 2017, 05:07:43 PM »
I have a complete unmodified 1D2. It is capable of making and receiving calls without depositing coins as you describe. It has a D-sub connector for the electronic totalizer, but the upper housing still uses the old style round connector to connect the switchook, handset, and touch calling unit to the chassis. I believe the upper housing connections to the round plug are the connections hydephone is referring to.
Good!  Does it contain a 557F IC or do you see that number marked somewhere else? 

Although I'm pretty sure the upper housings are interchangeable at least between a 1C and 1D, IIRC, even a 1C requires wiring changes in the U/H (as well as back assy) to convert from CF to DTF.    So the first essential is to ID which model he has.

Offline mentalstampede

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Re: Need help wiring a KS-21276 connector in pay phone
« Reply #8 on: June 08, 2017, 08:06:06 PM »
Good!  Does it contain a 557F IC or do you see that number marked somewhere else? 

Although I'm pretty sure the upper housings are interchangeable at least between a 1C and 1D, IIRC, even a 1C requires wiring changes in the U/H (as well as back assy) to convert from CF to DTF.    So the first essential is to ID which model he has.

There are no ICs apparent anywhere in my 1D2. I wonder if hydephone may have some kind of COCOT.

Hydephone, if you could post some pictures of your actual phone it would probably help us see what exactly you're trying to deal with.
My name is Kenn, and I like telephones.

“Progress isn't made by early risers. It's made by lazy men trying to find easier ways to do something.” --Robert Heinlein

Alex G. Bell

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Re: Need help wiring a KS-21276 connector in pay phone
« Reply #9 on: June 08, 2017, 09:06:57 PM »
There are no ICs apparent anywhere in my 1D2. I wonder if hydephone may have some kind of COCOT.

Hydephone, if you could post some pictures of your actual phone it would probably help us see what exactly you're trying to deal with.

I believe there are different coin chassis for the 1D.  Perhaps only one has an exposed IC.  The number I remember with more confidence is 32A, which I think was the later one.  Do you see a code stamped into yours?

But I'm pretty sure the earlier one has a white ceramic IC showing.  I found a very rusty coin chassis by the side of the road somewhere, many years ago and remember that one having the IC showing.

Offline mentalstampede

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Re: Need help wiring a KS-21276 connector in pay phone
« Reply #10 on: June 08, 2017, 10:37:08 PM »
Mine has a 32B chassis, with a 20A coin mech. There may be an IC in there somewhere, but I can't see one.
My name is Kenn, and I like telephones.

“Progress isn't made by early risers. It's made by lazy men trying to find easier ways to do something.” --Robert Heinlein

Alex G. Bell

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Re: Need help wiring a KS-21276 connector in pay phone
« Reply #11 on: June 08, 2017, 11:33:09 PM »
Mine has a 32B chassis, with a 20A coin mech. There may be an IC in there somewhere, but I can't see one.
I think its on the back of the coin chassis, not visible without removing it.  But (from memory), 557 is a series of IC codes.  Lots of Western Electric ICs have 5xx part numbers.  OTOH, if on the back, why would hydephone be able to see it?  Time will tell.  Maybe he dismounted the chassis.

Another reference for hydephone is the Coin Crafts or Public Services Crafts Manuals, which are also in the TCI library.  But there is no published BSP which gives much wiring detail for the 1D sets, including these manuals.  However I believe I had something which gives connections.

Nevertheless, p60 of the PSCM July 1980 states that IC1 of the 1D-type is a 40-pin hybrid IC, so that would make it a ceramic part as I described.  I'm pretty sure you will find it on the back of your coin chassis if you dismount it, but might as well wait for hydephone to post photos.

Offline hydephone

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Re: Need help wiring a KS-21276 connector in pay phone
« Reply #12 on: June 09, 2017, 12:58:44 AM »
Okay here we go.  Pictures as promised.  Let me know if you need more.

Trying three per post as attachments.

The back part is mounted to the wall and has a regular residential service feed (POTS?) to it.  This pic shows the board part pulled out so you can see the wire through the back.

Here is the board in place.  If you call the phone right now, the ringer at the top will ring.

This shows where the front part of the phone chassis connects to the back part electrically. 
 


Offline hydephone

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Re: Need help wiring a KS-21276 connector in pay phone
« Reply #13 on: June 09, 2017, 01:03:28 AM »
Continuing.

Shot of the wire coming through the back of the phone.  This is the regular residential service.  If I plug another phone in there I get a dial tome.

Numbers on the card.

Backside of the board.

Offline hydephone

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Re: Need help wiring a KS-21276 connector in pay phone
« Reply #14 on: June 09, 2017, 01:06:43 AM »
Alright.

Here is the front piece.

The inside of the front piece.

And the number on the inside of the front.