Author Topic: Western Electric 1C2 TT Single Slot Payphone  (Read 1856 times)

Offline AE_Collector

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Western Electric 1C2 TT Single Slot Payphone
« on: June 17, 2017, 12:17:07 PM »
Is this a 1D2 Payphone...I'm not certain. Let me know and I will update this if necessary.

Terry
« Last Edit: January 16, 2018, 11:40:37 PM by AE_Collector »

Alex G. Bell

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Re: Western Electric 1C2 TT Single Slot Payphone
« Reply #1 on: June 17, 2017, 01:37:34 PM »
No, it's a 1C2 as indicated by the use of two 11-pin round plugs at the bottom to connect the Totalizer and upper housing to the coin chassis.  A 1D would have one 11-pin round plug and one trapezoidally shaped D-sub, maybe 15 contacts, I forget the exact pin count but it's not important for identification.

1Ds are DTF only and use an electronic Totalizer with switches to set the initial rate.  1Cs are configurable for CF AKA "prepay" or DTF and use the electro-mechanical Totalizer visible under the clear plastic cover.
« Last Edit: January 16, 2018, 11:41:24 PM by AE_Collector »

Offline AE_Collector

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Re: Western Electric 1C2 TT Single Slot Payphone
« Reply #2 on: June 17, 2017, 01:43:01 PM »
Okay, thanks for that. I updated the subject line.

What is C2 versus just C?

I think the first number indicates a conventional housing where as a 2Cx is a Panelphone?

Terry

Alex G. Bell

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Re: Western Electric 1C2 TT Single Slot Payphone
« Reply #3 on: June 17, 2017, 02:21:07 PM »
Okay, thanks for that. I updated the subject line.

What is C2 versus just C?

I think the first number indicates a conventional housing where as a 2Cx is a Panelphone?

Terry
You're welcome.

Yes, first character is mechanical style: 1 = surface mounted, 2 = flush mounted (panel phone).

Third character is dial type: 1 = rotary, 2 = Touch Tone, 3 = manual.

Second character is the fundamental model ID: A = CF only, C = CF/DTF, D = DTF only, E = postpay.

1E types were only made in rotary and manual, not TT since CDOs where they were used were generally not converted to TT calling.  1E3s are very rare.

Never seen any reference to a "B" type.  It belongs on the List of Mysteries along with the #3 dial.


Offline mentalstampede

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Re: Western Electric 1C2 TT Single Slot Payphone
« Reply #4 on: June 17, 2017, 03:15:24 PM »
That's a nice phone, with some desirable features like the grey handset and intact instruction cards and branding.
« Last Edit: January 16, 2018, 11:41:59 PM by AE_Collector »
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Offline Fabius

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Re: Western Electric 1C2 TT Single Slot Payphone
« Reply #5 on: June 17, 2017, 09:05:57 PM »
Has this pay phone been modified? I see a 1989 TeleServices Co sticker on it.
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Offline AE_Collector

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Re: Western Electric 1C2 TT Single Slot Payphone
« Reply #6 on: June 17, 2017, 09:09:15 PM »
I'm not sure about being modified but there are two different stickers that look to be refurb company's. By the condition of the handset cord and chrome parts I don't know that it was installed since refurb.

Terry
« Last Edit: January 01, 2018, 09:57:45 PM by AE_Collector »

Alex G. Bell

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Re: Western Electric 1C2 TT Single Slot Payphone
« Reply #7 on: June 17, 2017, 09:19:30 PM »
I'm not sure about being modified but there are two different stickers that I took to be refurb company's. By the condition of the handset cord and chrome parts I don't know that it was installed since refurb.

Terry
Given the stickers it might be worthwhile to remove the 61C dial unit from the housing to see the front of the dial and determine whether it has a WECo 70-type dial or an aftermarket one. 

ISTR that Teleservices or some other 3rd party commercial company was making dials for single slot payphones to replace WECo 70-type dials.  It was a long time ago ('90s), but some 3rd party commercial company was definitely making replacement dials.  IIRC there was a problem with them having a voltage surge vulnerability.

Offline AE_Collector

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Re: Western Electric 1C2 TT Single Slot Payphone
« Reply #8 on: June 18, 2017, 05:08:43 PM »
Here is the front of the dial unit. I've not noticed Western Electric just putting "WE" on parts like this or is it not actually WECo? The dial/switch hook assembly is dated 4-1989 which presumably is a date that it was refurbished by Teleservices Corp.

As for the JR Fernandez Jan 2000 sticker, I'm wondering if the upper housing was refinished. I seem to recall some of the payphones at work being refinished (can you re-powder coat things like this?) and this might be the stickers I recall seeing on them.

Terry
« Last Edit: January 16, 2018, 11:43:06 PM by AE_Collector »

Alex G. Bell

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Re: Western Electric 1C2 TT Single Slot Payphone
« Reply #9 on: June 18, 2017, 06:20:50 PM »
Here is the front of the dial unit. I've not noticed Western Electric just putting "WE" on parts like this or is it not actually WECo? The dial/switch hook assembly is dated 4-1989 which presumably is a date that it was refurbished by Teleservices Corp.

As for the JR Fernandez Jan 2000 sticker, I'm wondering if the upper housing was refinished. I seem to recall some of the payphones at work being refinished (can you re-powder coat things like this?) and this might be the stickers I recall seeing on them.

Terry
I don't know about refinishing but an original WECo dial would have a 70A, B or C marking, in black ink IIRC.  That label suggests that they replaced the circuit with one of their own, reusing at least the front metal keypad.  That would make sense since it has to be an expensive item to tool for manufacture and if they were repairing failed dials they would have been smart to reuse expensive mechanical parts.

The 70-type keypads I've seen consisted of a chrome button and bezel assembly with a vinyl moisture barrier behind the buttons, a conventional 35-type keypad mounted behind that to provide the contacts and mechanical matrix, and a circuit board mounted on the back of that keypad.  The 70A used a thin white ceramic hybrid analog IC.  I forget how the 70A and 70B differed but think the 70C used a monolithic digital IC.

Here in the TCI library are the BSPs covering only 70A and 70B, not the 70C.  Somewhere I have info on the 70C but it's in some other document. The BSP was still at Issue 3 in 1995 so probably was never updated to cover it.

Issue 2 (1974) covers the 70A:
http://www.telephonecollectors.info/index.php/document-repository/doc_download/2378-501-165-115-i2-nov74-station-dials-70-type-metal-buttons-tl

Issue 3 (1979) covers the 70B too:
http://www.telephonecollectors.info/index.php/document-repository/doc_download/9034-501-165-115-i3-oct79-station-dials-70-type-metal-buttons-ocr

At this point I think you ought to dismount the dial from the dial assembly to see the circuit board and determine whether TeleServices replaced the WECo circuit board with one of their own.  Probably did would be my guess from the label.  If they had just repaired the dial unlikely they would have covered the WECo 70- code marking.

My recollection surrounding this whole topic is that TeleServices (or at least some manufacturer of payphone dials, and I think they were the one) sued the manufacturer of a TouchTone generator IC they designed into their product, claiming the parts were defective because large numbers were failing in service. 

In fact there was some aspect of their design that did not adequately protect the dial against voltage spikes it was exposed to during coin disposal.  Presumably they improved the design but had a lot of warranty costs and avoidable legal expenses on top of that, since I think they lost in court.

I have seen things marked with just the upper case "WE".  It is WECo's modernized logo.  Goodby stylized "Hawthorne" font, hello boring block letters!  :(
« Last Edit: January 16, 2018, 11:43:43 PM by AE_Collector »

Offline AE_Collector

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Re: Western Electric 1C2 TT Single Slot Payphone
« Reply #10 on: June 18, 2017, 09:05:15 PM »
Yes the word (Conversion) on the label seems likely to indicate that the insides were converted as you say. The insides agree as well. I couldn't figure out how to get the cover off the back of this initially but finally figured it out.

Terry

Alex G. Bell

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Re: Western Electric 1C2 TT Single Slot Payphone
« Reply #11 on: June 18, 2017, 10:21:19 PM »
Yes the word (Conversion) on the label seems likely to indicate that the insides were converted as you say. The insides agree as well. I couldn't figure out how to get the cover off the back of this initially but finally figured it out.

Terry
That's certainly not a WECo board. 

What is the part # on the IC?  Looks like it's designator is "U1" and it has a paper label on it beginning "444" but that's not the mfr's part #.  You probably have to lift the label to see it. 

Odd that they would put a label on a fixed function IC.  That's something that's usually done on programmable parts: memories or microcontrollers.

Offline AE_Collector

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Re: Western Electric 1C2 TT Single Slot Payphone
« Reply #12 on: June 18, 2017, 11:55:39 PM »
I keep making the mistake of putting it all back together after each time I dig deeper! Now we just discovered that our little freezer has turned into a refrigerator so I am a bit tied up for a bit.

Terry

Alex G. Bell

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Re: Western Electric 1C2 TT Single Slot Payphone
« Reply #13 on: June 19, 2017, 12:15:56 AM »
I keep making the mistake of putting it all back together after each time I dig deeper! Now we just discovered that our little freezer has turned into a refrigerator so I am a bit tied up for a bit.

Terry
Heh...  How many times have I had my AE step base desk stand apart to inspect it re the best way to modify the wiring to connect it to an AST subset, minimizing the number of solder connections which need to be changed and other considerations???

Yes, somehow I guess having a working freezer would be more important, at least to the woman of the house!  ;D

FYI, I had a problem like that many years ago which I fixed myself.  The (motorized) defrost cycle time died with the contacts closed so the defrost heater was powered continuously.  It was a broken spot weld in the timer which I was able to fix without replacing it.  It's still running many years later (knock on wood).