Author Topic: A fine addition to your payphone collection.  (Read 765 times)

Offline Stan S

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A fine addition to your payphone collection.
« on: June 18, 2017, 04:33:37 PM »
Hey folks.
Take a look at Ebay 182626176816  ( http://www.ebay.com/itm/182626176816 )
See anything wrong with it?
Correction!
See anything right with it?
Stan S.
« Last Edit: June 20, 2017, 07:44:39 AM by TelePlay »

Offline RotarDad

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Re: A fine addition to your payphone collection.
« Reply #1 on: June 18, 2017, 06:20:24 PM »
Hi Stan - Looking at this with my Kindle, so the screen is pretty small....  I see a 50's 10 upgraded stainless chute, missing relay, but era-correct screw-together hopper with trap parts present.  The wiring look complete, even to the relay.  I bet you'll tell me the relay and wiring are pre-pay config, but wait, if so, where's the dial.....The backboard looks very suspect; too shiney and smooth, and what's the deal with the large hole where the hook mounts... is that a repro stamped steel backboard?  Upper lock looks like much newer 29S, and coin gauge is stamped stainless, not earlier cast version. I don't know hooks, transmitters, and receivers well enough to comment,  but I'll guess they're not "fine" either....
« Last Edit: June 18, 2017, 06:31:13 PM by RotarDad »
Paul

Offline Russ62

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Re: A fine addition to your payphone collection.
« Reply #2 on: June 19, 2017, 04:19:48 AM »
Hi,   Gray-Westerns always have a cast iron back.  Bell System 3 slots never used a steel back. They went directly from the cast iron used through the 190 series, to the aluminum used on the 200 series.  Although I have a back board with the simplified switch hook mounting and an original Gray schematic/label, it does not have the the visible reinforcing welds along the edge which did not appear until the early 1950s on A.E payphones. People are always trying to pass these off as for Gray and it just isn't so.  Also the hook doesn't have the actuator for the 2 nickle relay which would make the the phone a 155G if it had an iron back.  Non dial paystations can be prepay like the early model 50A, but this one is missing the  lower relay anyway.                Russell

Offline Stan S

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Re: A fine addition to your payphone collection.
« Reply #3 on: June 19, 2017, 07:30:13 AM »

Good morning.
Many thanks to whoever added the screen shots. (Probably David).

RotarDad and Russ62, excellent calls.
Keep going there's much more.

Stan S.

Offline Stan S

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Re: A fine addition to your payphone collection.
« Reply #4 on: June 20, 2017, 07:32:28 AM »
Good morning.
It appears there are no more comments. So I'll chime in.

The most glaring mistake with this payphone (?) is the wiring harness. It's from a Gray HANDSET 3-slot. The lower part has 6 transfer contacts, the upper part has four.
Loads of these complete wiring harnesses were found in upstate New York many years ago. They were part of the remains of a payphone refurbishing company called Beco. If you want information on this HUGE find of antique payphone parts, Jim (Payphone installer) would be the guy to speak to, as he was a part of it.

Anyway, whenever you see two colors with a dash i.e. BK-GN, the harness is for a handset payphone. The small metal tab mounted to the BK-GN screw is a switch contact. When you pushed down on it it made contacted with the screw terminal below it. This allowed you to test the entire lower part of the payphone without the upper.

Will this conglomeration of parts work as a phone the way it is-NO! It is a collection of very valuable parts. However, when you screw them together they become a worthless piece of junk.

Do I think this was created purely for an Ebay auction- ABSOLUTELY!

Stan S.

Offline Russ62

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Re: A fine addition to your payphone collection.
« Reply #5 on: June 20, 2017, 04:40:33 PM »
Hi,  Ironically however, If you look at an actual Gray handset schematic, or in one case an Autelco era 150GJ schematic, they provide in the the notes section of the diagram an alternative hook up for use with separate receiver transmitter parts. I'm guessing that this was so the LOC could use extra parts on hand during servicing or refurbs.  Of coarse this requires the use of 6 contacts on both the backboard and the top housing. If you remove and examine the extra contact shown in Stans' last photo, you will see it is the center transmitter contact from an F handset. I thought it was part of a Rochester Telco. or Beco 10 cent conversion, but could never figure out what it would contact on the top housing.  These 10 cent conversions require an extra contact as described in A.E. tech. bulletin #499 to activate the 2 nickle relay. I'm still looking for the actual phone company diagram of this, as it would make my use of the available 10 cent lead coin chutes more authentic in my non Bell Gray 150s' the equivalent of Gray Western 155Gs'                                Russell
« Last Edit: June 20, 2017, 08:22:50 PM by Russ62 »

Alex G. Bell

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Re: A fine addition to your payphone collection.
« Reply #6 on: June 20, 2017, 05:21:57 PM »
These 10 cent conversions require an extra contact as described in A.E. tech. bulletin #499 to activate the 2 nickle relay. I'm still looking for the actual phone company diagram of this, as it would make my use of the available 10 cent lead coin shutes more authentic in my non Bell Gray 150s' the equivalent of Gray Western 155Gs'                                Russell
AE TB 499 does not appear to be in the TCI library.  Is a PDF available somewhere?

Offline Stan S

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Re: A fine addition to your payphone collection.
« Reply #7 on: June 20, 2017, 05:32:03 PM »
Russell
Just one more mystery. I solved all the 3-slot mysteries in my own mind many years ago. As far as I'm concerned the only payphones worth collecting and studying are FIRST VERSION. A payphone that's been upgraded, updated, modified or re-stamped no longer exists in my payphone world. Much less aggravation that way!

I get a kick out of collectors who think Western Electric 170 series payphones really exist. Not to me. As far as I'm concerned they are a figment of someones imagination. Never saw two of them that were built the same way from the same parts. Built out of destroyed 150 or 160 series payphones any way the guy building it thought it should be done.

As far as the illusive contact goes are you sure that footnote didn't only refer to 5 cent payphones? Thinking about it I've never seen a 2-piece 10 cent Gray. At least I don't think I have.

Stan S.

Alex G. Bell

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Re: A fine addition to your payphone collection.
« Reply #8 on: June 20, 2017, 05:39:30 PM »
As far as the illusive contact goes are you sure that footnote didn't only refer to 5 cent payphones? Thinking about it I've never seen a 2-piece 10 cent Gray. At least I don't think I have.

Stan S.
Please define "Gray".  Gray-Western 155Gs were certainly in service in the Bell System.  Two were in service in the 60s where I grew up.

Offline Russ62

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Re: A fine addition to your payphone collection.
« Reply #9 on: June 20, 2017, 08:14:41 PM »
Hi, A.E TB #499 is from the 1950s and is in the TCI library under the incoming drop down menu of documents not yet posted to the main library. It describes in great detail the shop conversion of various early Gray and Autelco phones to 10 cent operation, but doesn't include the associated diagrams. My Grays that I refer to in my post just say The Gray Telephone Paystation Company or Gray Manufacturing with no "and Western Electric Inc." above the coin door, and were used by independent phone companies like Associated Tel. (later GTE) as opposed to the Bell System and were equipped some what differently. Stan, I would very much prefer to have the first generation, original condition Grays. However as collector on a very limited budget I go for the next best thing. Many collectors enjoy having 151AL desk stands although the 51AL is the most pure.  I have both as they aren't that rare.  Even a good, as removed 155G that several payphone collectors enjoy is very expensive. Over time I accumulated several independent Gray shell parts and gradually built them into Grays 150G, 150GJ, and a Gray Manufacturing #66.  These I managed to build fairly authentic compared to a lot of the junk on Ebay, except for the coin chute issue. The #66 wasn't a problem as the A.E. 66-10 schematic was available on line and the Gray top I used came with the metal Gray/AE dial shroud, cloth wire harness and the early version of the dime only chute conversion.                              Russell
« Last Edit: June 20, 2017, 08:36:16 PM by Russ62 »

Alex G. Bell

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Re: A fine addition to your payphone collection.
« Reply #10 on: June 20, 2017, 08:34:52 PM »
Hi, A.E TB #499 is from the 1950s and is in the TCI library under the incoming drop down menu of documents not yet posted to the main library. It describes in great detail the shop conversion of various early Gray and Autelco phones to 10 cent operation, but doesn't include the associated diagrams.
Thanks.  Never remember to look there. 

I'm surprised the diagrams are not included.   Is the PDF complete as AE published it or was it published with diagrams which were not scanned?

Offline TelePlay

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Re: A fine addition to your payphone collection.
« Reply #11 on: June 20, 2017, 08:40:57 PM »
Hi, A.E TB #499 is from the 1950s and is in the TCI library under the incoming drop down menu of documents not yet posted to the main library.

     3907-ae-tb-470-920-1962-local-prepay-paystation-89  Type 89 Paystation

EDIT: correct link added below

     AECo_Bulletin_499_Oct57_-_Instructions_For_Converting_Paystations_To_Ten_Cent_Service_tci  AE TB 499
« Last Edit: June 20, 2017, 10:56:12 PM by TelePlay »
            John . . .

              

Offline Russ62

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Re: A fine addition to your payphone collection.
« Reply #12 on: June 20, 2017, 09:03:40 PM »
Hi, The bulletin refers to the diagrams by a number. so I'm guessing they were on another page maybe a different page for each model of phone.  I see while I was posting you posted link to diagram of an A.E 89 series which is a later model self contained payphone. I have all the 70 80 and 90 series diagrams in large GTE reprinted handbook that Phoneco Inc used to sell.  What I am refering to are modifications of early 150 series payphones that have talk circuit in a separate subset like a candlestick phone or 202.                              Russell

Offline TelePlay

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Re: A fine addition to your payphone collection.
« Reply #13 on: June 20, 2017, 09:10:40 PM »
I don't read AE TB well but that was the only AE upload in the last 50 uploads and it did say 470-920 so I assumed 499 was in the middle but I couldn't find anything related to any TB number including 499 in that 25 page document.

Just followed you directions as to where it was, found that link and posted here to save other time, if it's the right one.
            John . . .

              

Alex G. Bell

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Re: A fine addition to your payphone collection.
« Reply #14 on: June 20, 2017, 09:15:29 PM »
Hi, The bulletin refers to the diagrams by a number. so I'm guessing they were on another page maybe a different page for each model of phone. 

I see while I was posting you posted link to diagram of an A.E 89 series which is a later model self contained payphone.

I have all the 70 80 and 90 series diagrams in large GTE reprinted handbook that Phoneco Inc used to sell.  What I am referring to are modifications of early 150 series payphones that have talk circuit in a separate subset like a candlestick phone or 202.                              Russell
Thanks.  I didn't post the link to the 89.  Teleplay did. I know what the 89 is and have one.  Kind of an interesting hybrid but requires a special subset containing a relay and neon bulb.

I wonder whether you're referring to the 3 volume payphone book set Phoneco used to sell.  I have that but don't recall a GTE reprint in it.
« Last Edit: June 20, 2017, 09:18:46 PM by Alex G. Bell »