Author Topic: Green 302, painted handset  (Read 1387 times)

Offline Doug Rose

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Re: Green 302, painted handset
« Reply #15 on: June 22, 2017, 10:48:00 AM »
Good info Karl. Is it agreed the the later ones with the painted handsets version bases are different than their original cousins that were all made of the same material, handset and base.

I had always heard the earlier phones were themoplastic and the short lived later ones were softplactic, but you have proved that wrong.

My question is, are the bases the same or made of different materials....thanks...Doug
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unbeldi

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Re: Green 302, painted handset
« Reply #16 on: June 22, 2017, 11:00:38 AM »
Good info Karl. Is it agreed the the later ones with the painted handsets version bases are different than their original cousins that were all made of the same material, handset and base.

I had always heard the earlier phones were themoplastic and the short lived later ones were softplactic, but you have proved that wrong.

My question is, are the bases the same or made of different materials....thanks...Doug

These plastic telephone housings are all thermoplastic, whether 300, 500, Princess, Trimline, what ever.    Thermoplasticity is a mechanical characteristic primarily, and all plastics fall basically into the two categories: thermoplastic and thermoset types.   Bakelite is a thermoset material. WECo used Bakelite only for prototypes in the 1930s.

The bases, i.e the base plates, are from steel or aluminum.  Aluminum was used for some, but not all sets from 1947 to 1949, because of the availability of huge supplies of scrapped aluminum from WW-II airplanes and other equipment.

The 1955 CAB-plastic sets in the 500-type colors, are refurbished sets, they reuse old components returned from customers, with new housings, and supplemented with new or refurbished replacement parts as needed.  Therefore, the dates on the bases could vary widely.  It is a similar program as for the 5302, 5304, and 5306 sets, only for color, but helping use up that supply of old good parts.

PS:  Picture of Aluminum ingots at Kingman (AZ) airplane scrap yard.
« Last Edit: June 22, 2017, 11:32:08 AM by unbeldi »

Offline Dan/Panther

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Re: Green 302, painted handset
« Reply #17 on: June 22, 2017, 11:28:35 AM »
The housing has also been repainted. I didn't read if anyone else pointed that out.

D/P

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unbeldi

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Re: Green 302, painted handset
« Reply #18 on: June 22, 2017, 11:33:24 AM »
The housing has also been repainted. I didn't read if anyone else pointed that out.

D/P

Do you have examples of that ?

The housings were pure colored plastic, newly molded, and did not need paint.

Offline poplar1

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Re: Green 302, painted handset
« Reply #19 on: June 22, 2017, 11:38:30 AM »
The housing has also been repainted. I didn't read if anyone else pointed that out.

D/P

Seller's description says that the housing was "molded of soft plastic in an early 500 color."
"C'est pas une restauration, c'est une rénovation."--François Martin.

unbeldi

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Re: Green 302, painted handset
« Reply #20 on: June 22, 2017, 12:35:08 PM »
I forgot to mention that another BSP of 1955 describes the two-tone 300-type sets with CAB plastics.

While the previously mentioned Appendix only covered colored set practices for one of the Associated Companies (PacTel), this BSP was issued system-wide:

BSP Section C32.502 Issue 8, October 1955 (AT&T Standard), Telephone Sets — 302, 303, 304, 305, 306, 307, 309, and 329 Types — Description and Use

Section 3.04 has the following table, listing all eight colors in two-tone variety.

So, the only mystery that can possibly exist, is why we find only sets with painted (more or less matching) handsets, and NO two-tone sets.

We also don't have any information about the type of dial intended on these two-tone sets; was it still the 6D dial with white enameled rim, or was a black 6A, or 5H, acceptable ?   The found sets invariably have have a 6D (or refurbished 5J ?).
« Last Edit: June 22, 2017, 01:42:19 PM by unbeldi »

unbeldi

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Re: Green 302, painted handset
« Reply #21 on: June 23, 2017, 12:22:09 PM »
With the set selling at $153, it changed hands at a not unreasonable price, IMHO.  It certainly doesn't reflect its rarity, but rarity (=availability) is only one side of a market, the opposing one being demand.

Offline Dan/Panther

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Re: Green 302, painted handset
« Reply #22 on: June 23, 2017, 12:46:40 PM »
This is what I see in the photos posted to eBay.

Look at the base, it's a very well used phone, not in excellent original condition. Plus many of the photos have been enhanced, to either cover flaws, or highlight good features.

This is just my humble opinion.

D/P
« Last Edit: June 23, 2017, 01:10:24 PM by Dan/Panther »

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unbeldi

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Re: Green 302, painted handset
« Reply #23 on: June 23, 2017, 01:35:25 PM »
This is what I see in the photos posted to eBay.

Look at the base, it's a very well used phone, not in excellent original condition. Plus many of the photos have been enhanced, to either cover flaws, or highlight good features.

This is just my humble opinion.

D/P


Good observation.

I just downloaded all pics from eBay and looked at the details.  What is most interesting to me is the picture of the inside.

The housing does not show the typical markings; it should have H3 at a minimum next to the cord exit on the rear. H3 is for a 304, H1 for a 302.  By the hookswitch and the induction coil, this is a 304.  I also cannot detect any date stamp on the front edge either.  This seems to support possible painting.

The housing is very uniform in color on the inside, but I see a thin streak of black across the rear slope behind the hook switch assembly.  From a picture it is impossible to explain it, but it looks like something impacted at one point and then streaked across with less force.

The inside picture also reveals that the hook switch assembly is the wrong kind for a telephone with a Bakelite handset.  It should not have a spring. This was used ONLY on the sets with light thermoplastic handsets. I have seen this rule observed strictly on other sets, including recently on Jon's red set that was sold recently.

Since you are also showing the bottom now, it is ok for that to look old and used, because the bases were not new.  They were recycled from returns, just like the 5302 program did.  So we should also find old dates on the components on the base plate.  These sets were assembled in the distrubuting house shops.   But indeed, the housing should look as new.

However, reading the original description, the seller provides an explanation for the surface 'defects' that you mentioned.    He also states that the housing is undated, which is rather strange, IMHO.

PS: The picture shows the streak and HS assembly.
« Last Edit: June 23, 2017, 01:47:25 PM by unbeldi »

Offline Dan/Panther

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Re: Green 302, painted handset
« Reply #24 on: June 24, 2017, 12:16:44 PM »
Good observation.

I just downloaded all pics from eBay and looked at the details.  What is most interesting to me is the picture of the inside.

The housing does not show the typical markings; it should have H3 at a minimum next to the cord exit on the rear. H3 is for a 304, H1 for a 302.  By the hookswitch and the induction coil, this is a 304.  I also cannot detect any date stamp on the front edge either.  This seems to support possible painting.

The housing is very uniform in color on the inside, but I see a thin streak of black across the rear slope behind the hook switch assembly.  From a picture it is impossible to explain it, but it looks like something impacted at one point and then streaked across with less force.

The inside picture also reveals that the hook switch assembly is the wrong kind for a telephone with a Bakelite handset.  It should not have a spring. This was used ONLY on the sets with light thermoplastic handsets. I have seen this rule observed strictly on other sets, including recently on Jon's red set that was sold recently.

Since you are also showing the bottom now, it is ok for that to look old and used, because the bases were not new.  They were recycled from returns, just like the 5302 program did.  So we should also find old dates on the components on the base plate.  These sets were assembled in the distrubuting house shops.   But indeed, the housing should look as new.

However, reading the original description, the seller provides an explanation for the surface 'defects' that you mentioned.    He also states that the housing is undated, which is rather strange, IMHO.

PS: The picture shows the streak and HS assembly.

I also saw that scratch mark by the hook switch, I wasn't sure about it, so didn't mention it. I was thinking crack or scratch.
I don't have this particular phone in my collection, by I think this example has a few more issues than I would like to see.
The listing says buffing most likely cause of color variations. I just have to question that.
Thanks for considering my point. I appreciate it.
D/P

The More People I meet, The More I Love, and MISS My Dog.  Dan Robinson