Author Topic: Candlestick ID?  (Read 503 times)

Offline HarrySmith

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Candlestick ID?
« on: June 21, 2017, 09:30:05 PM »
Anybody able to ID this stick? Just ran across it on eBay and not sure what it is. Item #263049477852. Any and all help appreciated!
« Last Edit: June 23, 2017, 08:10:55 PM by TelePlay »
Harry Smith
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Offline rdelius

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Re: Candlestick ID?
« Reply #1 on: June 21, 2017, 09:55:27 PM »
British GPO style stick.Made by many companies to a standard design.used in other countries also.Lots of crude indian fakes out there

Offline Jack Ryan

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Re: Candlestick ID?
« Reply #2 on: June 21, 2017, 10:37:25 PM »
It is a GEC Telephone of the type used by the BPO (Tele No 150) and others. It has a Western Electric Transmitter and a No 8 or early No 10 dial.

The pictures are not good enough to determine much else. It may not have been used by the GPO - it may have been used in South America.

Jack

Alex G. Bell

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Re: Candlestick ID?
« Reply #3 on: June 22, 2017, 12:37:04 AM »
I have it on good authority that most of these used in the UK were updated to "bulldog" transmitters, which for my tastes would make them less attractive and #10 dial (large number card).  I got one which came from Canada at a phone show still equipped with a #8 dial (small # card like this one), Canadian Blauvelt metro number plate and original so-called "daffodil" transmitter.

The receivers have a brass shell coated with hard rubber.  They're often seen brassed out because the hard rubber can crack and once that's happened I guess some people feel they might as well strip them.  If this one has intact hard rubber all around IMO that might be a reason to buy it.  $100 does not seem excessive.

Although it's impossible to be sure from the photo, the round edge on the receiver cap is quite possibly original.  It's an interesting design with a little tunnel through the bottom surface to allow the sound of a howler to escape if the receiver is set down on a table.  706 receivers do this with "hills and dales" but most others do not.

Cords are probably not original.  AFAIK they always used "plaited" cords, which most of us would probably describe as braided: 3 conductors without a jacket interwoven like a lanyard.  You might find photos on Bob Freshwater's site.  I think there are sources for authentic looking repro plaited cords.
« Last Edit: June 22, 2017, 01:05:36 AM by Alex G. Bell »

Offline Jack Ryan

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Re: Candlestick ID?
« Reply #4 on: June 22, 2017, 02:02:08 AM »
I have it on good authority that most of these used in the UK were updated to "bulldog" transmitters, which for my tastes would make them less attractive and #10 dial (large number card).  I got one which came from Canada at a phone show still equipped with a #8 dial (small # card like this one), Canadian Blauvelt metro number plate and original so-called "daffodil" transmitter.

Many were updated with a Transmitter No 22 that used a transmitter module from the handset 164. Those transmitters were (and are) not called "Bulldogs" - that is a North American term.

Early Dials No 10 had a small centre like the No 8 dial. It is not possible to tell the difference from the front - the difference is at the rear.

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The receivers have a brass shell coated with hard rubber.  They're often seen brassed out because the hard rubber can crack and once that's happened I guess some people feel they might as well strip them.  If this one has intact hard rubber all around IMO that might be a reason to buy it.  $100 does not seem excessive.

The hard rubber is called Ebonite and yes, it does crack and chip eventually. The telephone companies stripped and painted black any that were damaged when they were refurbished. The "brassed out" receivers were mostly the product of the "1970s brass phase" although there are resellers that still do it.

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Cords are probably not original.  AFAIK they always used "plaited" cords, which most of us would probably describe as braided: 3 conductors without a jacket interwoven like a lanyard.  You might find photos on Bob Freshwater's site.  I think there are sources for authentic looking repro plaited cords.

No, the cords are not original. The receiver cord was a twisted pair of braided wires. The mounting cord was either a three wire braided cable or a plaited cable composed of three braided wires. It depended on the jurisdiction and the service - some mounting cords used four wires.

Jack

Alex G. Bell

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Re: Candlestick ID?
« Reply #5 on: June 23, 2017, 12:02:44 PM »
Many were updated with a Transmitter No 22 that used a transmitter module from the handset 164. Those transmitters were (and are) not called "Bulldogs" - that is a North American term.

Early Dials No 10 had a small centre like the No 8 dial. It is not possible to tell the difference from the front - the difference is at the rear.

The hard rubber is called Ebonite and yes, it does crack and chip eventually. The telephone companies stripped and painted black any that were damaged when they were refurbished. The "brassed out" receivers were mostly the product of the "1970s brass phase" although there are resellers that still do it.

No, the cords are not original. The receiver cord was a twisted pair of braided wires. The mounting cord was either a three wire braided cable or a plaited cable composed of three braided wires. It depended on the jurisdiction and the service - some mounting cords used four wires.

Jack
The British person who told me that "daffodil" transmitters and #8 dials are rarely found on desk stands in the UK may or may not have used the term "bulldog".  It was a long time ago.  I think he did though because he knew the term and knew I would understand it.  Maybe he prefixed it with: "what you might call..."

Regardless, most CRPF readers will understand the term and I've seen more on eBay with the modernization than with an original transmitter.  So when you said it's a WECo transmitter did you mean US domestic or British WECo?  The ex-Canadian example I own has all British WECo parts including the transmitter.

What the phone companies did with receiver shells which were shedding the coating has little bearing on what shows up on eBay, where many of these phones appear.  I've seen lots of brassed out ones.

Offline Jack Ryan

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Re: Candlestick ID?
« Reply #6 on: June 23, 2017, 07:59:08 PM »
The British person who told me that "daffodil" transmitters and #8 dials are rarely found on desk stands in the UK may or may not have used the term "bulldog".  It was a long time ago.  I think he did though because he knew the term and knew I would understand it.  Maybe he prefixed it with: "what you might call..."

Solid back transmitters are still pretty common but No 8 dials certainly aren't. There are two reasons why No 8 dials aren't common. Firstly, very few were made as they were replaced by the No 10 quite quickly. Secondly, it is a trivial exercise to convert a No 8 dial to a No 10.

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Regardless, most CRPF readers will understand the term and I've seen more on eBay with the modernization than with an original transmitter. 

I mention the terminology just as a matter of fact. The Brits don't use the term and I respect that - that's all.

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So when you said it's a WECo transmitter did you mean US domestic or British WECo?  The ex-Canadian example I own has all British WECo parts including the transmitter.

It is a British Western Electric transmitter. I mentioned that because the phone itself was made by GEC so the transmitter has been changed at some time.

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What the phone companies did with receiver shells which were shedding the coating has little bearing on what shows up on eBay, where many of these phones appear.  I've seen lots of brassed out ones.

They turn up on eBay finished with Ebonite, paint and "brassed out". Both Ebonite and paint were original finishes and some Ebonite receivers were painted during refurbishment. As I said earlier, the "brassed out" receivers are mostly the product of the '70s.

I am sure that some are interested to know what was original and therefore what on eBay might be original.

Regards
Jack