Author Topic: Leich 100 Series wiring  (Read 978 times)

Alex G. Bell

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Re: Leich 100 Series wiring
« Reply #15 on: July 02, 2017, 11:31:24 PM »
BTW, I also have another "reversible" desk/wall set" a Televerket light gray one.  It's very little used or not at all. 

It showed up in a thrift store in San Carlos CA some 15+ years ago together with a 554BR-58 (white) definitely unused in its original early WECo carton with just the blue printing on the outside and the packet of accessory parts inside.  It has Bell System markings.  Apparently never exposed to light, the white plastic is perfectly free of discoloration.

If the 554BR showed up after the creation of CRPF it definitely would be a candidate for Find of the Month.  I probably paid $15 for it or something equally insignificant.

Offline mentalstampede

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Re: Leich 100 Series wiring
« Reply #16 on: July 03, 2017, 12:27:37 AM »
Here's the inside of my 115. I am really pleased with it. It does in fact have the original 20 cycle ringer, and all of the dated components are either '54 or '55. The dial number card appears to be original to the phone as well.
My name is Kenn, and I like telephones.

“Progress isn't made by early risers. It's made by lazy men trying to find easier ways to do something.” --Robert Heinlein

Alex G. Bell

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Re: Leich 100 Series wiring
« Reply #17 on: July 03, 2017, 01:07:18 AM »
Here's the inside of my 115. I am really pleased with it. It does in fact have the original 20 cycle ringer, and all of the dated components are either '54 or '55. The dial number card appears to be original to the phone as well.
Where did you find dates? 

The exposed side of the network on this one is black but the side facing the dial is not, so perhaps it was painted over.  The baseplate is marked "1 57" in a separate line from the "105C".  The receiver unit is WE U1 5-20-55 but the transmitter is an undated ITT 75555, obviously replaced.

Offline mentalstampede

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Re: Leich 100 Series wiring
« Reply #18 on: July 03, 2017, 02:04:48 AM »
Alex,

Mine is dated in the same places. 4 55 is stamped on the bottom near the model number and ringer frequency, the receiver element (WE U1) is dated 3-31-54, and the transmitter (WE T1) is dated 4-54. I haven't found dates on any other components.
My name is Kenn, and I like telephones.

“Progress isn't made by early risers. It's made by lazy men trying to find easier ways to do something.” --Robert Heinlein

Alex G. Bell

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Re: Leich 100 Series wiring
« Reply #19 on: July 03, 2017, 02:10:32 AM »
Alex,

Mine is dated in the same places. 4 55 is stamped on the bottom near the model number and ringer frequency, the receiver element (WE U1) is dated 3-31-54, and the transmitter (WE T1) is dated 4-54. I haven't found dates on any other components.
Thanks!

unbeldi

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Re: Leich 100 Series wiring
« Reply #20 on: July 03, 2017, 12:48:32 PM »
I am interested in a high-resolution picture of the rear of the dial.  The dials in these are supposed to be No. 52 dials, I believe, while at first the 700-type sets still used 51A dials (later, 52 too).   I believe mine has a No. 52, but I am not 100% sure, as I don't have a record that I ever removed the front 'number' plate (it has no numbers) to show the finger stop.

Alex G. Bell

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Re: Leich 100 Series wiring
« Reply #21 on: July 03, 2017, 01:20:55 PM »
I am interested in a high-resolution picture of the rear of the dial.  The dials in these are supposed to be No. 52 dials, I believe, while at first the 700-type sets still used 51A dials (later, 52 too).   I believe mine has a No. 52, but I am not 100% sure, as I don't have a record that I ever removed the front 'number' plate (it has no numbers) to show the finger stop.
Which dial would you like a photo of?  Mine or Mentalstampede's?  From his partial view his also seems to have a separate outer ring.

I downloaded 3 docs from the TCI library to try to be certain of the differences between 51As and 52s:

http://www.telephonecollectors.info/index.php/document-repository/doc_download/613-ae-dials-type-51-and-52-excerpt
which is more explicitly "AE Cat M (date unk) p.M-28 - 51A & 52 Type Dial ID excerpt"

http://www.telephonecollectors.info/index.php/document-repository/doc_download/275-ae-dials-types-51-a-and-52-reference-charts
and
http://www.telephonecollectors.info/index.php/document-repository/doc_download/279-gsp-997-300-500-i5-table-2-aeco-dial-chart

Which might be more explicitly renamed:
A.E. Cat Unknown pp. 4, 26, 27, 28 - Dials for Type 80 Series.pdf
and
AECo 997-300-500 Iss. 4 p.8 - Tbl 2 - Dial Chart
(not necessarily in that order).

The last two docs left me needing to study them more than I have patience for but the first seems to make it clear that the 51A is a 3" dial with metal plate and separate plastic number ring as on my 105-C set and the 52 has a single piece extended number plate.

Are you looking for a photo of mine?

unbeldi

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Re: Leich 100 Series wiring
« Reply #22 on: July 03, 2017, 03:25:52 PM »
Which dial would you like a photo of?  Mine or Mentalstampede's?
I was thinking of the OP, and he is in the picture taking posture already, but yours would be equally interesting, since they both originally had dials.

Alex G. Bell

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Re: Leich 100 Series wiring
« Reply #23 on: July 03, 2017, 04:03:02 PM »
I was thinking of the OP, and he is in the picture taking posture already, but yours would be equally interesting, since they both originally had dials.
Here are some high res. photos.  The phone is still out on the lawn in case more are needed.  Direct sunlight with the sun directly overhead causes reflections but the shade is not good either at this hour, better when the sun is lower in the sky.

unbeldi

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Re: Leich 100 Series wiring
« Reply #24 on: July 03, 2017, 04:19:33 PM »
Wow, a plastic finger wheel !
Your dial is mounted in a cup of the outer number ring.

My number ring is mounted on the dial.


Alex G. Bell

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Re: Leich 100 Series wiring
« Reply #25 on: July 03, 2017, 04:42:32 PM »
Wow, a plastic finger wheel !
Your dial is mounted in a cup of the outer number ring.

My number ring is mounted on the dial.
So I see!  I've never studied early AE 80 set dial variations in great detail other than observing the change from concentric plates to a single plate.

And mine has 5 textile insulated leads like shown on your diagram, including the two dotted ones.  I'm puzzled why the two extra leads would be optional.  I don't see any note stating when they are used and when not.

I've always assumed that the line varistor (312D) rendered the network non-reactive enough that WE chose to dispense with shunting the transmitter and optionally the IND coil. PRI wdg. but never seen any published statement on the topic.

It puzzles me that Leich would choose to use a WH, a GN and a BL dial lead and not use them the same way they're used on a #7 dial fundamentally they were reproducing the 500 set circuit.

Offline mentalstampede

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Re: Leich 100 Series wiring
« Reply #26 on: July 03, 2017, 05:30:07 PM »
So I see!  I've never studied early AE 80 set dial variations in great detail other than observing the change from concentric plates to a single plate.

And mine has 5 textile insulated leads like shown on your diagram, including the two dotted ones.  I'm puzzled why the two extra leads would be optional.  I don't see any note stating when they are used and when not.

I've always assumed that the line varistor (312D) rendered the network non-reactive enough that WE chose to dispense with shunting the transmitter and optionally the IND coil. PRI wdg. but never seen any published statement on the topic.

It puzzles me that Leich would choose to use a WH, a GN and a BL dial lead and not use them the same way they're used on a #7 dial fundamentally they were reproducing the 500 set circuit.

It looks to me like ALL the dial leads are shown as dotted, not just the two from terminals C and F, although it's hard to tell since some of them, are drawn very short on the diagram. I think that's to denote that they are not present on non-dial versions of the phone, since it's a one size fits all diagram. So not optional, per-se.

Hopefully I'll have a chance to take some pictures of my dial tonight; things are hectic around here due to the holiday.
My name is Kenn, and I like telephones.

“Progress isn't made by early risers. It's made by lazy men trying to find easier ways to do something.” --Robert Heinlein

Alex G. Bell

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Re: Leich 100 Series wiring
« Reply #27 on: July 03, 2017, 06:01:17 PM »
It looks to me like ALL the dial leads are shown as dotted, not just the two from terminals C and F, although it's hard to tell since some of them, are drawn very short on the diagram. I think that's to denote that they are not present on non-dial versions of the phone, since it's a one size fits all diagram. So not optional, per-se.

Hopefully I'll have a chance to take some pictures of my dial tonight; things are hectic around here due to the holiday.
You're right!  All 5 are dotted and surely it's for that reason, though the ON contact leads would simply be absent in a manual set while the G S-H lead would have to connect to the P terminal (as designated on the diagram) instead and they don't show that on the diagram.  I suppose it's in the table.

unbeldi

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Re: Leich 100 Series wiring
« Reply #28 on: July 03, 2017, 08:18:08 PM »
So I see!  I've never studied early AE 80 set dial variations in great detail other than observing the change from concentric plates to a single plate.
It's hard to find AE80s of this early date, as it is hard to find 100s.  I think AE_Collector (Terry) has some early 80s.  I don't know how long they made the 100, but perhaps no longer than until they started to make AE 80s for AE.

I had always questioned why Leich jumped in numbers from type 700 to 100, in a short period of time. It think the 700s came out around 1953, and I have reached the opinion that the 100 series was brought to market after the GT merger with the Gary Company, and Leich became subordinate to Automatic Electric in the combination.  AE had the 80/90 series already on the books, so the successor to the Leich 700 became the 100.  Therefore, the 100 acquired the Type 52 dial from the AE 80, for which it was made, I believe.

So, this is the explanation for my asking for the dial pictures. I am kind of surprised to see yours had a recessed (cupped) dial mounting bezel/ring, rather than the Type 52 front mounted number plate.  Perhaps the early 100s also used 51A dials, which is what I think yours is if it has bifurcated springs with twin-contacts points.  The picture is straight on, so I can't determine whether that is true in fact.

I thought 1955 was the first year of manufacture for the 100s, but Mentalstampede's 1954-dated receiver and transmitter may indicate the previous year.  Why else would Leich have bought WECo T1 and U1 elements ?  Perhaps they bought a large batch during the design phase already. On my August 1955 set, the elements are dated in January and April 1955, also several months before set production.

It may well be that the 100-type evolved in components used in the course of this time in mid-1950s, especially as the dial is concerned. Stromberg-Carlson underwent similar contemporaneous evolution from 1400 to the 1500 series.

Quote
It puzzles me that Leich would choose to use a WH, a GN and a BL dial lead and not use them the same way they're used on a #7 dial fundamentally they were reproducing the 500 set circuit.

Your picture shows the two receiver shunt wires are more or less white/grey, while they are red and yellow in the diagram, and also on my set with the PVC insulation.  Is there evidence that they are just color-faded the entire length?

The colors WH and GR, also R and Y were already used for the dial in the 700 series, so in the 100 they just added the blue.  BTW, the 700 series had specifications, that it could use a WECo #7 dial, albeit wired differently than in a 500 set.

I think AE started using PVC insulation closer to their move to Northlake in 1957, so I think my dial may have been installed later than 1956, as I think I alluded to earlier.  That was the date on the replacement ringer.

Offline mentalstampede

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Re: Leich 100 Series wiring
« Reply #29 on: July 03, 2017, 11:56:46 PM »
The plot thickens!

I opened mine up to take more photos, and much to my surprise I have no blue lead on my dial like is shown on the diagram and You have in your phones. This does not as far as I can tell appear to have any detrimental effect on the operation of the phone, but it is interesting nonetheless. If my reading of the circuit diagram is correct, the only thing that changes is the transmitter is not shorted out of the circuit while dialing, only the receiver. Perhaps that would indicate that mine is an earlier phone with more similarity to the 700 series?

In any case, My dial is mounted in a recessed bezel like Alex's is. Also, my ring has large dots instead of the triangular chevrons I'm used to seeing on AE dials.


I thought 1955 was the first year of manufacture for the 100s, but Mentalstampede's 1954-dated receiver and transmitter may indicate the previous year.  Why else would Leich have bought WECo T1 and U1 elements ?  Perhaps they bought a large batch during the design phase already. On my August 1955 set, the elements are dated in January and April 1955, also several months before set production.

Mine has a 4 55 date on the base, so even though the elements have mid 1954 dates, they weren't actually assembled into a complete phone until April 1955.
« Last Edit: July 04, 2017, 09:51:53 AM by mentalstampede »
My name is Kenn, and I like telephones.

“Progress isn't made by early risers. It's made by lazy men trying to find easier ways to do something.” --Robert Heinlein