Author Topic: Early 500s x 3!  (Read 2226 times)

Offline TelePlay

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Re: Early 500s x 3!
« Reply #30 on: July 14, 2017, 08:12:11 PM »
Probably be cheaper to buy there.

Harry,

Those are all US seller and after conversion, they are the same price as in the US. Those are not cheap items anymore and I think that is the reason phones and dials many times are sold without them, the retainer are sold by themselves for good money.
« Last Edit: July 14, 2017, 08:19:58 PM by TelePlay »

Offline TelePlay

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Re: Early 500s x 3!
« Reply #31 on: July 14, 2017, 08:28:00 PM »
Okay... because I don't seem to be able to upload any more photos here, te following is a link to a blog post on my own website where you'll find all the images of all three phones. Just click on a photo to see it full size.

Images added to that reply:

     http://www.classicrotaryphones.com/forum/index.php?topic=18475.msg190557#msg190557

Offline andy1702

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Re: Early 500s x 3!
« Reply #32 on: July 15, 2017, 05:11:56 AM »
Harry,

Those are all US seller and after conversion, they are the same price as in the US. Those are not cheap items anymore and I think that is the reason phones and dials many times are sold without them, the retainer are sold by themselves for good money.

Those prices are mad. I paid less than that for the entire phones! somebody needs to start making plastic replacements and knocking them out at 50p each! I refuse to buy over-priced parts from Flea-bay. There are people out there wrecking historically important vintage items and parting them out to make a quick buck. I try not to support them. Far better to get the part remanufactured somehow.
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Alex G. Bell

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Re: Early 500s x 3!
« Reply #33 on: July 15, 2017, 08:30:30 AM »
Those prices are mad. I paid less than that for the entire phones! somebody needs to start making plastic replacements and knocking them out at 50p each! I refuse to buy over-priced parts from Flea-bay. There are people out there wrecking historically important vintage items and parting them out to make a quick buck. I try not to support them. Far better to get the part remanufactured somehow.
The Bell System made ones with plastic outer frame late in the game: mid-70s I'd guess.  The internal parts were stamped metal even in the plastic ones.  Plastics were a pretty mature technology by then.  Nevertheless they break easily.  I doubt anyone will do better today with the resources they can bring to bear compared to AT&T.  They need to be metal IMO.

Offline TelePlay

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Re: Early 500s x 3!
« Reply #34 on: July 15, 2017, 01:46:33 PM »
Those prices are mad. I paid less than that for the entire phones! somebody needs to start making plastic replacements and knocking them out at 50p each! I refuse to buy over-priced parts from Flea-bay. There are people out there wrecking historically important vintage items and parting them out to make a quick buck. I try not to support them. Far better to get the part remanufactured somehow.

Well, it's a 4 or 5 piece item: the retainer ring, the acetate window, the card, the card backer and the internal retainer. I doubt anyone could justify the cost of setting up the tools to produce these at less cost than current pricing. It's a cost benefit analysis of initial tooling set up, cost of production, reasonable mark up and market size that make the decision to manufacture them today an easy decision - no way. And, yes, plastic is not an option.

And, yes, both WE and AE retainers are expensive these days Supply and demand. People do buy them in the $12 to $15 range because they need them so the price will stay in that range or increase as demand exceeds supply. There is no other option and those who bought them by the bag full many years ago are fortunate today.

Some 302s and most stand alone 302 dials are sold without the card retainers. These retainers sold for a few bucks a few years ago but within the past couple of years, sellers realized they could get relatively good money for the retainers alone so began to remove them. A 302 restoration project phone or a stand alone dial with the retainer in place is an oddity these days.

Offline andy1702

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Re: Early 500s x 3!
« Reply #35 on: July 15, 2017, 03:14:11 PM »
Well, it's a 4 or 5 piece item: the retainer ring, the acetate window, the card, the card backer and the internal retainer. I doubt anyone could justify the cost of setting up the tools to produce these at less cost than current pricing. It's a cost benefit analysis of initial tooling set up, cost of production, reasonable mark up and market size that make the decision to manufacture them today an easy decision - no way. And, yes, plastic is not an option.

And, yes, both WE and AE retainers are expensive these days Supply and demand. People do buy them in the $12 to $15 range because they need them so the price will stay in that range or increase as demand exceeds supply. There is no other option and those who bought them by the bag full many years ago are fortunate today.

Some 302s and most stand alone 302 dials are sold without the card retainers. These retainers sold for a few bucks a few years ago but within the past couple of years, sellers realized they could get relatively good money for the retainers alone so began to remove them. A 302 restoration project phone or a stand alone dial with the retainer in place is an oddity these days.

Well they won't be supplying any to me at that price. The phones will just sit here without them until the world sees sense and stops paying these crazy prices. Just because it's on fleabay at a stupid price doesn't mean we have to be stupid enough to buy it.
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Offline Doug Rose

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Re: Early 500s x 3!
« Reply #36 on: July 15, 2017, 03:54:29 PM »
Steve Hilsz sells them complete for $5. Fleabay...... :(......Doug
Kidphone

Offline andy1702

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Re: Early 500s x 3!
« Reply #37 on: July 18, 2017, 02:27:26 PM »
Quick update time.

Two of the three phones are now wired and working on the UK system. I like the sound of the bells in these phones better than the uk bells.
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Offline twocvbloke

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Re: Early 500s x 3!
« Reply #38 on: July 18, 2017, 02:32:38 PM »
I like the sound of the bells in these phones better than the uk bells.

The C4A ringer, has a nice ring to it, doesn't it?  ;D

It's probably why the french Socotel S63 has a similar tone, if not identical, different ringer mind, but sounds like a WE(2)500... :)

unbeldi

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Re: Early 500s x 3!
« Reply #39 on: July 18, 2017, 05:19:14 PM »
I like the sound of the bells in these phones better than the uk bells.

The C4A ringer, has a nice ring to it, doesn't it?  ;D

It's probably why the french Socotel S63 has a similar tone, if not identical, different ringer mind, but sounds like a WE(2)500... :)


A lot of research and material science went into the design of C-type ringers.

I see that you have two versions of it, the C2A, made until ~Q1 1953, and the C4A ringer, made from thereon.
There was also a C3A ringer.

Their use was as follows:
C2A:  individual, two-party, four-party semi-selective, and multi-party coded ringing
C3A: four-party full-selective, eight-party semi-selective ringing
C4A: The C4A ringer of 1953 supplanted both of them, and eliminated many other older ringers in a newly designed subset of 1955.  As noted also by Kalin in 1952, the Bell System made something like twenty different ringers at that time.

The design description in BLR September 1951 by W.L. Tuffnell:
The fundamental ringer tones have been made considerably stronger by mounting formed aluminum resonators under the gongs. In previous ringers, resonators have been added in the field only when required.  ...    It should be noted that the fundamental frequencies of the two gongs of the new ringer are lower, which results in a more pleasing and effective tone. To produce a harmonious sound, the two gongs were made to differ in their fundamental frequencies by a major third. An outstanding feature of the new set is the provision for ringer sound level control by the subscriber.  A notched wheel that projects through the base of the set can be shifted to four different positions for four levels of ringer output.


Refs:
* W.L. Tuffnell, 500 Type Telephone Set, BLR 29(9) p414 (Sep. 1951)
* W. Kalin, A Universal Telephone Ringer, BLR 32(10) p366 (Oct. 1954)

Offline twocvbloke

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Re: Early 500s x 3!
« Reply #40 on: July 18, 2017, 05:34:24 PM »
Hmm, I didn't spot that C2A stamp, I must make sure to look in more detail in future... ;D

Offline andy1702

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Re: Early 500s x 3!
« Reply #41 on: July 21, 2017, 02:33:50 PM »
Hmm, I didn't spot that C2A stamp, I must make sure to look in more detail in future... ;D

Don't worry... I didn't spot it either and it's sitting here  in front of me!!! ;D
Call me on C*net 0246 81 290 from the UK
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For telephone videos search Andys Shed on Youtube.