Author Topic: Is there a way to change duration before timeout on Panasonic PBXs?  (Read 575 times)

bellsystem

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I have a Panasonic 824 PBX and a Panasonic 308 PBX, both analog, both supporting 8 extensions. I primarily use the 824 PBX - it has 5 extensions connected and the 308 has 2; however, the two PBXs are chained together (the CO lines go to spare extensions on the other PBX). Neither of them are connected to the PSTN, C*Net, or any other network.

The only post-80s phone I have is a Panasonic Proprietary handset used for programming. It works only with the 824, not the 308. This morning, I managed to use programming #115 to change ringtone from double to single, like a standard line, since I don't need differentiate between outside and internal calls.

The only other thing that has been bothering me about both of these PBXs is the timeout. If you pick up the receiver, you get a dial tone, but after about 10 or 15 seconds, if nothing has yet been dialed, the PBX "times out" that line - providing either fast busy or intercept tone (I think it's fast busy; it's the same tone you get if you dial yourself without dialing 99 first to go the other PBX and back).

On a "real" landline, typically it's almost a minute before your line times out, and you get intercept, fast busy, or howler tone. I'm not sure why it's so relatively short for Panasonic PBXs.

I've scanned the entire programming manual, front to back. I can't find anything that has to do with the time allotted by the PBX for dialing before it times out. Is there any way at all to change this setting? Preferably, I'd like to increase it to at least 30 or 45 seconds. Otherwise, I find myself picking up the receiver, and before I even start dialing, the PBX times me out and I have to hold down the switchhook again for 2 seconds, which is just annoying.

Alex G. Bell

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Re: Is there a way to change duration before timeout on Panasonic PBXs?
« Reply #1 on: July 19, 2017, 02:01:31 PM »
If you pick up the receiver, you get a dial tone, but after about 10 or 15 seconds, if nothing has yet been dialed, the PBX "times out" that line

On a "real" landline, typically it's almost a minute before your line times out, and you get intercept, fast busy, or howler tone. I'm not sure why it's so relatively short for Panasonic PBXs.
I know of no land line which allows 1 minute for the first digit or between digits.  I've been paying attention to things like this since the mid-1960s and have been served by flat spring #5XB, #1XB, wirespring #5XB, #1/1AESS and #5ESS in multiple cities on both coasts.

On most exchanges the time out duration is determined by the number of digits required to be dialed.  So PABXs, especially electro-mechanical ones with few register circuits, typically had shorter timeouts, some as short as 6-12 seconds for 2 or 3 digit PBX. 

I've never encountered a CO timeout longer than 35 seconds on any of the above CO exchange types.  The flat spring #5XB where I grew up gave 35 seconds.  The AT&T, former Pacific Bell, presently 5E serving my POTS line times out dial tone in 20 sec.  I also have dial tone from a CLEC served from an unknown switch type (TelcoData.US does not say).  It's definitely not 5E and behaves obviously differently from my 5E line in a number of call processing treatments.  Lie the 5E it also times out dial tone in 20 seconds however I believe the interdigit timeout is much shorter than the 5E.

bellsystem

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Re: Is there a way to change duration before timeout on Panasonic PBXs?
« Reply #2 on: July 19, 2017, 02:13:26 PM »
Interesting,

I guess I should lower my expectations. I have heard recordings from before the Precise Tone Plan when actual machines were use to generate dial tone, and it was almost a minute before the line was intercepted,

Is there any way to make it at least a little longer? Maybe 15 or 20 seconds? I'm not even sure what the number of digits to dial has to do with how long the CO/PBX waits before terminating your connection.

(Also, I'm not concerned about between digits after the first digit has been dialed, I'm talking about before dialing anything).

Alex G. Bell

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Re: Is there a way to change duration before timeout on Panasonic PBXs?
« Reply #3 on: July 19, 2017, 02:30:17 PM »
Interesting,

I guess I should lower my expectations. I have heard recordings from before the Precise Tone Plan when actual machines were use to generate dial tone, and it was almost a minute before the line was intercepted,

Is there any way to make it at least a little longer? Maybe 15 or 20 seconds? I'm not even sure what the number of digits to dial has to do with how long the CO/PBX waits before terminating your connection.

(Also, I'm not concerned about between digits after the first digit has been dialed, I'm talking about before dialing anything).
Most of the exchange types and examples I cited did predate Precise tones, used modulated tones.  The type of COE which you heard in the recording might shed some light on why it took so long. 

Your question might be best addressed to a group which is visited by Panasonic installers and specializes in Panasonic questions.  However if you have the programming documentation and there are no commands listed for changing the timeout duration there probably is none. 

The duration of the timeout is related to the human ability to remember a number accurately and hence the need to refer back to a piece of paper before dialing.  This ability diminishes as the number of digits increases. 

It's also related to the cost and hence quantity of digit capture devices provided.  DTMF receiver chips were somewhat more costly than simpler ICs, especially for the KX-T rather than KX-TAs, when these Panasonic systems were designed.  So a sufficient but not overly generous number of DTMF receiver chips were provided. 

These analog systems also use space division analog switching matrices so each added DTMF receiver requires an additional column or row of CMOS crosspoints in the matrix, one XPT per station port, further driving up system cost.  10-15 seconds is plenty of time to remember and dial a 1 or 2 digit # within a small "community" of 8 or even 24 other stations. 

Does the timeout really vary between 10 and 15 seconds from one call to the next?  In some electro-mechanical systems where timeout was performed by counting time pulses with relays, TO varied from call to call depending on the moment within the time pulse generator interval when the TO cycle began for a particular register circuit since the time pulse generator was often times already running when a particular line began being timed out. So a 1:2 min:max ratio was common.  I'd expect any electronic system to be much more consistent.  Even #5XB used cold cathode gas tubes to time out the ORs, so it was very consistent from call to call.

bellsystem

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Re: Is there a way to change duration before timeout on Panasonic PBXs?
« Reply #4 on: July 19, 2017, 02:44:10 PM »
No, timeout doesn't vary. I just never counted exactly - that was an estimate.

I just went to check. Both my 308 and 824 PBXs time out after exactly 10 seconds.

Offline Owain

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Re: Is there a way to change duration before timeout on Panasonic PBXs?
« Reply #5 on: July 21, 2017, 03:38:07 PM »
I think the Panas have a timeout for exchange line dialling which can be programmed, but I don't think extension dialling timeout can be altered.

Offline TelePlay

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Re: Is there a way to change duration before timeout on Panasonic PBXs?
« Reply #6 on: July 21, 2017, 04:09:43 PM »
No, timeout doesn't vary. I just never counted exactly - that was an estimate.

I just went to check. Both my 308 and 824 PBXs time out after exactly 10 seconds.

Have you read this topic

     http://www.classicrotaryphones.com/forum/index.php?topic=16290.0

Do your have the special phone needed for programing the 308 616 and 824 units?

And if so, have you read the manuals and tried to change the factory strapped boot settings?
            John . . .

              

bellsystem

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Re: Is there a way to change duration before timeout on Panasonic PBXs?
« Reply #7 on: July 21, 2017, 06:41:43 PM »
Yes, I have the programming phone. I only use it for programming and speakerphone because as a regular phone it sucks (tons of static).

I programmed intercom rings from double to single the same day, so yes it's working for programming. Scanned the entire manual and no mention of the setting I want.

Offline TelePlay

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Re: Is there a way to change duration before timeout on Panasonic PBXs?
« Reply #8 on: July 21, 2017, 07:12:43 PM »
Yes, I have the programming phone. I only use it for programming and speakerphone because as a regular phone it sucks (tons of static).

I programmed intercom rings from double to single the same day, so yes it's working for programming. Scanned the entire manual and no mention of the setting I want.

Okay, you're ahead of me on reading the manual. I just use sections as I need a code. What you want to do may not be possible.
            John . . .

              

bellsystem

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Re: Is there a way to change duration before timeout on Panasonic PBXs?
« Reply #9 on: July 21, 2017, 08:43:37 PM »
Okay, guess I'll just put up with it then. My PBXs are usually shut off and unplugged most of the time since there's no PSTN and thus my phones aren't terribly useful. Guess I shouldn't really complain then. I'm assuming in larger PBXs that support hundreds of lines, and more industry type PBXs, you're able to specify how long to wait before timeout.

How did the SxS systems do it? People who left their phones off hook usually got howler tone. Was there a mechanical mechanism that activated when a phone went from on to off hook, and deactivated if a user dialed the first digit (and went to the next selector) and had a timer so it could shut off the line if necessary?